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  1. Eos leaks - has this problem been fixed?? 
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    Been reading all the problems with leaking and squeaking Eoses (what is the plural of Eos??) Have these problems been fixed or if I buy a new model am I likely to suffer the problems too?? Did lubing the seals fix all the problems??

    Thanks all
    Chris

    P.S. Just how noisy is the diesel???!
     
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  2. #2
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    HI Still seem to be a problem with leaks etc some cars seem fien others not I am waiting for a year or so before trying to buy one
    alan
     
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    Ps for the time being bought a focus cc3 NO leaks or rattlles drives well , little under powered,but would have rather had the EOS. BUt even with a jet wash..not a drop
    alan
     
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    Mine is fine. I just keep the roof seals lubed, and there are no leaks or rattles/squeaks.

    I think it is all a matter of maintenance. I've performed a pressure wash test on mine and it was fine.

    I, personally, wouldn't delay my purchase because of the possibility of water leaks.

    Here is what you do: Put the deposit down on one, and have it brought in to your specs. When it arrives, test drive it (you will love it, I'm sure of it) and then ask them to do a lube of the roof seals. When they finish, ask for use of their car washing hose, and let a lot of water land directly on the seals around the car. Test for a few minutes on each side (just remember, a gentle water flow, not a jet-- you want to test for rain incursion, not hurricane proofing).

    If it doesn't leak, you are off to the races (uhm, drive responsibly... ) if it does, turn it down and say you are not willing to pay for a car that leaks.

    You can't lose.



    --Jon
    go go gadget hardtop and hair-gel...
     
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  5. #5
    Paul Hopkinson Guest
    Hi
    If you buy an eos its a gamble as to weather it leaks.
    For those owners that do not have leaks or have not yet experienced them yet then fantastic, i wish with all my heart that I was one of them.
    For those owners who have had problems then they know what crap service to expect from VW and the dealers.
    Its no joke spending well over £20,000 and hoping that "your eos" is one of the good ones that doesn't bleeding leak.
    To say that it is down to maintenace of the seals to prevent the problem of leaks is a cop out and ridiculous in this modern day and age.
    Other car manufacturers can make cc type of cars that do not leak.
    VW must have problems with variable build quality or all cars would leak or all would be water tight. There is no half way house on this issue.
    A leak is actual proof of either bad design, wrong materials or bad build.
    Or a combination of any of the these three items.

    Do you really want to gamble with over £20,000 of your own money ?

    Paul..
     
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hopkinson View Post
    Hi
    If you buy an eos its a gamble as to weather it leaks.
    For those owners that do not have leaks or have not yet experienced them yet then fantastic, i wish with all my heart that I was one of them.
    For those owners who have had problems then they know what crap service to expect from VW and the dealers.
    Its no joke spending well over £20,000 and hoping that "your eos" is one of the good ones that doesn't bleeding leak.
    To say that it is down to maintenace of the seals to prevent the problem of leaks is a cop out and ridiculous in this modern day and age.
    Other car manufacturers can make cc type of cars that do not leak.
    VW must have problems with variable build quality or all cars would leak or all would be water tight. There is no half way house on this issue.
    A leak is actual proof of either bad design, wrong materials or bad build.
    Or a combination of any of the these three items.

    Do you really want to gamble with over £20,000 of your own money ?

    Paul..
    Could not agree more I spoke to dupont and they were amazed that the EOSis dependent on Krytox to not leak They have sold to all cc manufacturers but only to stop creaks and rattles but never for leaks! There is a design fault and I am happy that I managed to get my money back..Just one sight of the boot with the mould etc was enough.. come on VW get it sorted!! This hs potential to be a great car
    alan
     
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  7. Emotions 
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    I think it is obvious that there are some emotions involved in those last responses, funny how cars can do that to us. Basically, when the Eos was first introduced, they had major issues, and they mostly corrected this by replacing the materials used in manufacturing the seals.

    In order for these new materials to work effectively, they must be kept soft and pliable just like in any car. People who don't use something like Krytox on their seals regularly are the ones that complain about their car leaking in a few years; I should point out that many dealerships include seal lubrication in their regular maintenance process.

    With the Eos (and other convertibles) seal maintenance is really important because there are so many more seals than on a "normal" car.

    Lets turn back the clocks a little. My first convertible, a 1975 Alfa Romeo Spider, was a great car. It was a manual top, and required seal maintenance regularly. In fact, the engine's service recommendation was for every 4000km. That included a major roof maintenance. Even after maintenance, it still leaked. Thankfully, technology has improved a lot since then.

    So, maintenance cycles have moved from 4000km due to this improved technology, and the VW now requires an 8000km cycle. That is a good thing for us. But, the seals, even with the newer materials and technology, still need regular maintenance to remain soft and effective. This contributes to the problem since the car doesn't get into the dealership often enough to get lubed properly-- especially on those cars that don't do large mileage.

    My Honda's seals are the same. So are my friend's Porsche. If he leaves his top without lube for 8000km, it leaks just like the VW ones do. He actually learned of Krytox from me, and was amazed by what a difference it made to the leaks and to the rattles too.

    So, we have two issues that sparked the "oh my, these things leak so bad" syndrome. First, the original seals were not effective; that is why they were changed (my kudos to VW for recognizing the problem and dealing with it). Second, dealerships were not including the lube process in their pre-delivery process. The car was made. Sat in a lot waiting for delivery. Sat on a ship during delivery. Sat at the dock awaiting clearance. Sat in the dealership waiting for the inspection process. Then sat again waiting for you to pick it up. This process could be months. THAT is why the seals are not working properly. Because they DO require lubrication in order to be effective-- as to all seals in any car.

    Your next rebuttal is probably going to be "well, my other cars never needed seal maintenance and they don't leak". That is probably not exactly true. Seals around doors and trunks usually have a second line of defense in case some leakage occurs. Drain spots, etc. A "normal" car doesn't have seals sitting above your head.

    Maintenance for cars with sunroofs usually include seal lubrication and maintenance for the sunroof. It is a "high visibility" item where leaks are noticed because water falls on your head.

    Before you tear apart the Eos for being defective, I think it is important to do your research. Many of the original complaints were made by people who had the "first off the line" cars, and dealerships just didn't know enough about the car to deal with this issue properly-- they made intrusive changes designed to fix the problem but made it worse (this happens with ANY brand new product due to first time problems). Some were due to factory mistakes-- but all car companies have issues like that.

    The owner complaints about leaking Eos cars are starting to die off now; most of the current threads on the subject are by people who are, like the OP here, thinking of buying one and want to know about the problem.


    The Eos is FAR less money than any car that can compare to it. Although there aren't too many with a sunroof/convertible that have a breakthrough transmission within the price point that this car sits at. If you are thinking about buying an Eos, but have some new-car-worries that you want answered, then go to your local dealer and talk with the Eos expert (not the sales person, but the service one). Tell him that you like the car, and that you have heard of issues with it leaking, etc. Ask him what training he has had on the car, and how they go about dealing with these types of problems.

    Most importantly, build a relationship with him. Then you will know that your issues will be taken care of by someone that understands the car. I strongly doubt that you will have issues. I've spoken to far more Eos owners that are having trouble free driving and enjoyment than otherwise.

    Basically, everyone here is absolutely right. When you buy a product, you are risking your money. That is true for any products that you buy, from a pack of gum up to a new house. You can risk your 20000 pounds on a VW Eos that is most likely going to be a great car with no issues other than the occasional seal maintenance, OR, you can spend 30000 pounds on some of the other branded cars and have them perform the roof maintenance for you during your regular maintenance... Some people opted to wait for a year or two until the Eos has a little more history behind it-- I decided that I'd rather enjoy driving it now, and I am personally glad that I did.

    Would I have bought the 60000 pound high-end car? Yes, if I could justify spending that much on a car. Am I happy with the Eos? Absolutely. I'm actually spending our upcoming long-weekend going on an EDA! (Eos Driving Adventure).

    Take care, and let us know what you decide!


    Off Topic Note: I was trying to keep personal emotions out of this post. I'm hoping that I achieved a calm debate that shows the "other side". I know, in my heart, that I'm an Eos owner; I love the car and have nothing bad to say about it. I probably wasn't successful, since we are all emotional bags-of-water. Now, don't get me started on the Ford Explorer Tranny Issues.
    go go gadget hardtop and hair-gel...
     
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  8. #8
    Paul Hopkinson Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by EOSmage View Post
    I think it is obvious that there are some emotions involved in those last responses, funny how cars can do that to us. Basically, when the Eos was first introduced, they had major issues, and they mostly corrected this by replacing the materials used in manufacturing the seals.

    In order for these new materials to work effectively, they must be kept soft and pliable just like in any car. People who don't use something like Krytox on their seals regularly are the ones that complain about their car leaking in a few years; I should point out that many dealerships include seal lubrication in their regular maintenance process.

    With the Eos (and other convertibles) seal maintenance is really important because there are so many more seals than on a "normal" car.

    Lets turn back the clocks a little. My first convertible, a 1975 Alfa Romeo Spider, was a great car. It was a manual top, and required seal maintenance regularly. In fact, the engine's service recommendation was for every 4000km. That included a major roof maintenance. Even after maintenance, it still leaked. Thankfully, technology has improved a lot since then.

    So, maintenance cycles have moved from 4000km due to this improved technology, and the VW now requires an 8000km cycle. That is a good thing for us. But, the seals, even with the newer materials and technology, still need regular maintenance to remain soft and effective. This contributes to the problem since the car doesn't get into the dealership often enough to get lubed properly-- especially on those cars that don't do large mileage.

    My Honda's seals are the same. So are my friend's Porsche. If he leaves his top without lube for 8000km, it leaks just like the VW ones do. He actually learned of Krytox from me, and was amazed by what a difference it made to the leaks and to the rattles too.

    So, we have two issues that sparked the "oh my, these things leak so bad" syndrome. First, the original seals were not effective; that is why they were changed (my kudos to VW for recognizing the problem and dealing with it). Second, dealerships were not including the lube process in their pre-delivery process. The car was made. Sat in a lot waiting for delivery. Sat on a ship during delivery. Sat at the dock awaiting clearance. Sat in the dealership waiting for the inspection process. Then sat again waiting for you to pick it up. This process could be months. THAT is why the seals are not working properly. Because they DO require lubrication in order to be effective-- as to all seals in any car.

    Your next rebuttal is probably going to be "well, my other cars never needed seal maintenance and they don't leak". That is probably not exactly true. Seals around doors and trunks usually have a second line of defense in case some leakage occurs. Drain spots, etc. A "normal" car doesn't have seals sitting above your head.

    Maintenance for cars with sunroofs usually include seal lubrication and maintenance for the sunroof. It is a "high visibility" item where leaks are noticed because water falls on your head.

    Before you tear apart the Eos for being defective, I think it is important to do your research. Many of the original complaints were made by people who had the "first off the line" cars, and dealerships just didn't know enough about the car to deal with this issue properly-- they made intrusive changes designed to fix the problem but made it worse (this happens with ANY brand new product due to first time problems). Some were due to factory mistakes-- but all car companies have issues like that.

    The owner complaints about leaking Eos cars are starting to die off now; most of the current threads on the subject are by people who are, like the OP here, thinking of buying one and want to know about the problem.


    The Eos is FAR less money than any car that can compare to it. Although there aren't too many with a sunroof/convertible that have a breakthrough transmission within the price point that this car sits at. If you are thinking about buying an Eos, but have some new-car-worries that you want answered, then go to your local dealer and talk with the Eos expert (not the sales person, but the service one). Tell him that you like the car, and that you have heard of issues with it leaking, etc. Ask him what training he has had on the car, and how they go about dealing with these types of problems.

    Most importantly, build a relationship with him. Then you will know that your issues will be taken care of by someone that understands the car. I strongly doubt that you will have issues. I've spoken to far more Eos owners that are having trouble free driving and enjoyment than otherwise.

    Basically, everyone here is absolutely right. When you buy a product, you are risking your money. That is true for any products that you buy, from a pack of gum up to a new house. You can risk your 20000 pounds on a VW Eos that is most likely going to be a great car with no issues other than the occasional seal maintenance, OR, you can spend 30000 pounds on some of the other branded cars and have them perform the roof maintenance for you during your regular maintenance... Some people opted to wait for a year or two until the Eos has a little more history behind it-- I decided that I'd rather enjoy driving it now, and I am personally glad that I did.

    Would I have bought the 60000 pound high-end car? Yes, if I could justify spending that much on a car. Am I happy with the Eos? Absolutely. I'm actually spending our upcoming long-weekend going on an EDA! (Eos Driving Adventure).

    Take care, and let us know what you decide!


    Off Topic Note: I was trying to keep personal emotions out of this post. I'm hoping that I achieved a calm debate that shows the "other side". I know, in my heart, that I'm an Eos owner; I love the car and have nothing bad to say about it. I probably wasn't successful, since we are all emotional bags-of-water. Now, don't get me started on the Ford Explorer Tranny Issues.

    I don't deny that I feel emotional about my response.
    When you have spent £26,000 on a car, which then turns out to have problems and then you are faced with dealers and a manufacturer who do as little as possible to sort things out then it sure does get emotional.

    You say that "when the Eos was first introduced then there was major issues which were corrected by replacing the materials used in manufacturing the seals"
    Does this only apply to new build cars ?
    What about those of us who have early VIN numbered cars ?
    My Vin is Lower than 1500, which would imply that it is an early Eos and was registered last September.
    Don't you think that VW should contact all early model owners and replace the seals with the newer water tight versions ?
    VW or my dealer will not acknowledge that there is or have been faults with the seals to me.
    I don't want to reject my car, all I want is a car that doesn't leak.

    Seal maintenance. I love this bit. My original owners booklet 3.2,only very loosely refers to seal maintenance. There is no mention of what to use, when to use it or how to use it.
    Another pal with a newer Eos has a newer issue manual with more specific instructions, which presumably were released when the cars started to arrive with the upgraded seals. I do not know this as a fact but it seems likely.
    I asked my dealer for a copy of this, which arrived 6 weeks later.

    In it it says to lubricate the seals after every wash !
    Well considering that I try to wash my car every week or at the latest every two weeks, then this would imply that I have to lubricate the seals 26 times a year.
    Now that is not what I call progress.
    When I have applied the lubrication myself, then to do it properly it took between 3 and 4 hours.
    If I had known that lets say fortnightly roof maint was essential at the time of ordering the car, then I would have reconsidered whether to buy.

    I too have had older cars with manual operated vinyl roofs, which required no maintenance and did not leak.
    My 1972 Triumph Spitfire had an engine that drunk oil as if it was going out of fashion but the roof was water tight.
    I ahve friends, realatives and work colleagues with cc's and vinyl topped cars but none have the same leaky roof problems as my Eos and no one is considering changing to an eos.

    The Dealer. I only want to see my dealer once a year when my car goes in for an anual service. I have no desire to build a relationship with them. I do not want to know every individual by their first name.
    The Eos Expert. Do you really think that this person who is employed by the dealer he is going to give an impartial opinion of the Eos. He is going to tell you want you want to hear, that it is all nonesence and that they do not leak.

    If we all waited two years when a new car is released before buying one, then how would the dealers and manufacturers cope/survive ?
    We dont wait, we trust that we are buying a product that at least has had some sort of testing at the design and manufacturing stages and if there are problems we rely on the dealers and manufactureres to put things right.

    I have said it before, the fact that there are problems does not really surprise me, but the response of the dealers and manufacturers is inadeqate.

    With hindsight, then I regret the day that I walked into my VW dealers.
    One of the ironic things is that my wife loves Vauxhalls and she prefered the Astra CC, but I convinced her that the Eos was better looking (no contest, and she reluctantly agreed) but I also told her that the VW was better built and would be more reliable ! Egg on Face or what !

    My recomendation to any one who wants an Eos is that after considering all the plus point and negative points then if you want to hope that your new Eos will be ok, then do not buy one but lease one.
    In your lease contract then make sure there is a clause that allows you to terminate the lease with as litlte financial penalty as possible. That way if your eos turns out to be a load of hassle then you can walk away with as little loss as possible.

    Paul
     
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  9. Krytox Lubricant 
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    Does any body know where i can purchase this Krytox from as my dealer wants over £40.00 for a bottle of their lubricant which is no bigger the a nail varnish bottle. Did not even want to give me one, i only spent £27,000.00 with them. There attitude stinks.
     
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  10. #10
    Paul Hopkinson Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by hitachizx View Post
    Does any body know where i can purchase this Krytox from as my dealer wants over £40.00 for a bottle of their lubricant which is no bigger the a nail varnish bottle. Did not even want to give me one, i only spent £27,000.00 with them. There attitude stinks.

    Hi
    Send an email to sales@gbrtech.co.uk The following was their reply to me a few months back.

    I ordered one morning and it arrived next day.

    "Thank you for your enquiry for Krytox anti-squeak products. Prices are as follows :- GPL 105 oil in 30ml applicator bottle - GB£16.00
    ea, GPL205 grease in a 2oz tube - GB£16.50ea and UL5 in 100ml spray can
    (GPL105 with a carrier gas) - GB£8.30 ea.All prices excl VAT. Minimum order
    value is GB£30.00. Carriage charges for grease/ oil is GB£3.50. If UL5
    included then we must use a carrier instead of post then cost is GB£9.00. If
    you need further info call us on 0118 982 0567."

    Paul..
     
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