Tiptronic... A warning

[gazza57]

Bought my A6 in Aug 2015 3.0 Tdi Quattro Tip, best gearbox on an Auto I've ever had BUT at just 92000 miles:

Driving home last Friday got a gearbox malfunction message and car went into limp mode, got it scanned, three codes, one for a module, the second for clutches and the third for selector fork.
Car would not move initially, however after I left it for four hours it was fine
.
After talking to a trusted mechanic I know he called someone who specialises in Tiptronic Gearboxes for Porsche and for Audi only.

The estimate for sorting this is an eye watering £4300 inc VAT, he has taken it today but is of the opinion that Audi's sealed for life advice on Tiptronic Gearboxes will be to blame for this gearbox failure, we will see.

He says that they do between 8-10 of these per month and whilst some are just down to ragging the box, the majority just fail due to emulsified fluid which has lost its ability to effectively lubricate the internals.
He prefers to call it not sealed for life but sealed for death, there is no fluid invented that can keep its lubricating properties for 6-10 years, there just isn't.
It is very difficult to replace the fluid £31/litre, a lot of specialist bits and pieces are required and therefore it's expensive, especially so at Audi dealers.


He is of the opinion that not changing the gearbox oil wipes probably a quarter of the gearboxes lifespan into a cocked hat, but that the motivation to do this keeps maintenance costs down and thereby monthly leasing charges lower, by the time the cars get to >80k miles anyway most are long out of their warranty and are therefore unimportant to the dealers in any case.

The car is worth £10k but I now have to pay £4300 to get it back on the road, this is a bitter pill to swallow after having all my servicing done on the dot with Genuine parts, I understand the Tip box is being phased out to be replaced by the S Tronic for Quattro models, but it will be a long time before I buy an Audi again if ever, especially one with an Auto box.

[Whippy53]

Yeah, so, advice on here has always been to change the " cough " sealed for life oil at 80k. No mechanical system working under those conditions can ever be 'sealed for life'.

[Gazwould]

[gazza57]

Cheers Gazwould

[gazza57]

I spoke to Audi yesterday who were unsurprisingly unsympathetic, and of course refuted that the decision to leave the gearboxes without oil change wasn't in the best interests of owners, but more about keeping lease charges down when the cars are new and still under warranty.
It is then surprising to learn the new S Tronic gearboxes will require transmission fluid changes every 38000 miles, but what happened to "sealed for life"?
The answer to that question is clear.
Gazza57

[AndyN01]

I'm no chartered engineer but "common sense" says that any lubricating fluid needs to be changed at some point - assuming that you want whatever it is lubing to last a decent length of time.

I reckon it's the last bit - a decent length of time - that's the root of the problem.

IMHO it's in a manufacturer's financial interest to have a car "pack up" just after they can wash their hands of any warranty claim.

With the favourite ways of currently "buying" a car this is even more advantageous for them. It keeps the sales turning over!

If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd even think that the manufacturers get together so that they don't really care who gets the "new" sale because they know that, overall, the marque leavers and joiners will even out.

Andy.

[Alan02]

The sealed for life quote is, as mentioned above, only for the warranty period. If your not going to replace oils on any mechanical unit your going to hit problems.

[gazza57]

I see what you're saying alan02 but then really a gearbox oil change should appear in the service schedule, it doesn't not on Tiptronic gearboxes anyway.
If you ask the dealer to change it you get a "sealed for life" response which is code for they don't want to do it because its complicated and difficult and quite simply they're not set up for it.
I have learnt possibly in the hardest way possible (ie through the wallet) that everything you get told by a main dealer should be questioned, everything.
From their point of view it's a win win situation, don't change the gearbox oil, because it's too much of a faff, let the box fail and charge for a new gearbox (around £7k I'm told).

I must accept responsibility for not going elsewhere and getting it changed, but put quite simply I shouldn't have to do that, if there's a requirement for the gearbox oil to be changed as part of a planned service regime to ensure the longevity of the vehicle, then it should be part of the servicing schedule, end of.
The dealers are always carping on about how important it is to ensure an "approved" dealer carry out your servicing, if you follow that rationale, then you either accept that they are happy not to bother and let your box fail, OR you go to unauthorised persons and get it changed.
The new S Tronic gearboxes require fluid changes every 38000 miles, they are in my opinion nowhere near as good as a Tiptronic ZF box.

I shall have to pay at least £4300 to get this job done, the small crumb of satisfaction I will gain however is know that not one single penny will cross the main dealers palm.

Gazza57

[AndyN01]

This would make a very interesting Small Claims Court claim.

£4300 is way less than the £10K that is the limit.

The difficulty might be to get an "expert" report to back up the claim that the oil is no longer doing its job which has led to the failure. The lack of a scheduled oil change and the "sealed for life" statements would, I think, support the view that there was no reason to change the oil and IF the failure is due to a failure in the lubrication it would seem quite reasonable to expect the components to last a significant length of time. The car is not yet 4 years old and IMHO 92K miles isn't astronomical for a 3 litre diesel car.

Or, failing an "oil failure" report, something to say that this is not simply reasonable "wear and tear" because I don't reckon wear and tear is going to form the basis of a successful claim.

But with a written report from say, the Tiptronic specialist (or similar appropriately qualified engineer such as the AA or RAC), it would be fascinating to see which way a Judge decided.

If the Judge decides for you then you might get all/some of your £4300 back.

Just a thought and maybe something to look into?

Good Luck

Andy.

[mrmarc]

Hi Gazza57,

Can i ask what 3.0tdi engine do you have? is the 218,272 or 313ps bitdi?

regards