Added grinding noise only when turning left at slow speed

[defever]

Hello fellow B5 owners,

I'm having an ongoing issue which I can't seem to identify for a while.

I can hear some sort of slight "grinding" noise when I'm turning left at low speed, usually comes on when turning 1/4 - 1 full turn, for example coming out of parking space or turning into a narrow lane. It only comes on left turn only and not on right turn. The noise is more evident when the engine is warm, and sometimes (SOMETIMES) I almost feel the "grind" through driver's footwell. When the engine is cold it's nearly non-existent.

Garage couldn't find anything but slipping off-side tracking rod gaiter. The noise went away, but soon came back and the gaiter was off upon inspection. They didn't do a fine job securing but I eventually got it secured (Question Spower steering noise (rubbery squeal, not loud but noticeable)). But the noise is still there; it hasn't improved or worsened.

I had a look into the off-side wheel well and I noticed that one of the upper control arm bushings (the left oneon the pic) looks quite flat compared to the others:

IMG_0768.jpg

I'm not sure if the bushing needs replacing or whether if this is causing the noise in question so I wanted to ask here if I'm on the right direction on troubleshooting this "grinding" noise. Compared to the near-side, the equivalent bushing is not as flat as the off-side so I'm assuming it needs to be inspected anyways?

What are your thoughts?

Thank you in advance for helping me on this.

[MiniMental]

I wouldn't think that would cause a grinding noise, looks fine to me? If it has gone you will be able to move the arm by hand, that's just a gator for the ball joint in the arm. Have you checked wheel bearings? If it grinds when turning left and not right it would suggest a right wheel bearing to me? Maybe CV joint/driveshaft? If there's a problem with the upper or lower arms you will feel it by pulling the wheel left/right/out/in. My Passat had almost 3/8" play in the front one when I bought it (2 months after MoT)

I would jack car up and turn wheel by hand to check wheel bearing, while its up give the wheel a wiggle and feel for any play. Should be more or less solid. (Don't mistake steering movement for play )

Hope this helps,

As usual, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong fellow VWAFers

Mini

[defever]

Thanks very much Mini,

Checking for wheel bearing and control arms are my next step so I'm glad to hear your advice on that. I've been looking at the off-side (driver side) so that coincides with the left turn grinding.

Just been looking at “bad bearing” symptoms online and it’s not quite the same with the symptom I have. I don’t have the grinding noise when at speed like a bad bearing. Only at slow speed and turning left. And one I’m confused is that the noise is more prevalent when the engine is warm.

I will jack it up and see if there’s any play on both sides just to make sure.

Thanks very much!

[defever]

An update on this…

I jacked up the car yesterday to check the offside (right) wheel:

• Wheel play a) lef-right and b) top - bottom: nothing.
• Spun the wheel manually: no noise apart from occasional brake friction. No constant noise which I assume I would hear if a bearing was a broken.
• Control Arms: the upper control arm (the one I thought was bit flat) plays a bit (not even a 0.5mm) when rocked by hand. Other arms were rock solid.
• Turning the wheel manually left – right: no noise apart from the steering fluid sloshing. Occasionally the offside tracking rod gaiter “pops” after when it’s compressed at full lock to right and gets stretched on full lock to left. And that’s what I thought the cause of the noise is.
• I double checked the gaiter and it is secured both ends by cable tie. To me, the gaiter feels too long and maybe it’s over compressing and some of the folds “pop” when stretched turning to left.
• I double checked all the above on the near-side (left) but I didn’t find anything abnormal from my amateur observation.

So, I’m still confused on this one. The noise is definitely more audible when the car has been driven for a while. A 160mile round trip on the weekend I can definitely feel and hear it at the end of each journey; rolling down the spiral slope on multi-storey car park at 5mph was the worst. I can just hear some “rubber rubbing” “minor grinding” noise. Sometimes I can feel it on my gas pedal, too.

The symptoms are:

• “rubber rubbing” / “grinding” noise from the front
• Only on turning left at slow speed
• It’s definitely more audible when the car has been driven a while.

I triple checked the tracking rod gaiter (which a garage initially suspected) and I’m certain it’s secured properly but occasionally “pops” due to over compression. I'm not too sure if that's the culprit or what to do with it. I doubt that the very slight play on the upper control arm can cause this, and I’m certain that it’s not the bearing as I don’t have the noise constantly at a speed (which is the typical symptom for the bearing, I believe?).

For now, I just cannot find the culprit or any component that needs immediate attention.

Any further thoughts from fellow drivers?

Your thoughts will be very much helpful for me to resolve this.

Happy motoring!

[defever]

A quick update on this: VICTORY!

I was really getting annoyed at this so I had another good look at it and made few improvisations.

First, the offside tie rod boot (or driver's side tracking rod gaiter) was definitely the culprit of the grinding / rubber rubbing noise. It keeps popping off despite re-securing multiple times in the last few months.

The rubber of the boot may be old and hardened so it keeps sliding on the outer end (the smaller end). And this eventually pulls the inner end and off it rattles... The garage used a thick black zip tie to secure both ends, and maybe they were to thick for its purpose. So I used a thinner cable tie to secure both ends. Really tight. Also, I rapped couple of the same cable ties to the tie rod end as a spacer to avoid the boot slipping off.

Hurrah! It's in situ even after 80miles drive!

I will get the boot replaced eventually (with the right seal!) when the inner or outer tie rod needs replacing. But in the meantime, it covers the tie rod from dirt and still serves its purpose.

That's done and over. Phew!

[spartacus 68]

Good news. I'd take a look at the upper arms on a dry day. Even although the rubber busing is intact the arms could worn and sloppy and you'll feel it as a clunk over cobbles if you want to check. The lower ones can be felt too, again over cobbles. Meyle HD or Lemforder if you only want to do the job once.

[defever]

Thanks spartacus 68, both of the upper arms have 1mm play by hand so I know these will looking after in near future. The lower ones still feels rock solid so I believe they are okay.

I understand that replacing the upper arms will require the spring coil to come off as well so it's a bit of a big job for me (that's how I feel now) so it might be a garage job. I'll make sure they will use Meyle or Lemforder brands.

Thanks once again and happy motoring!

[garfayliu]

Hi there,

Good post and I think I have something similar. Been worried it might be steering rack, CV joint or wheel bearings. Is there any chance you could send some photos of your fix please?

Cheers.

[defever]

Hi there,

Good post and I think I have something similar. Been worried it might be steering rack, CV joint or wheel bearings. Is there any chance you could send some photos of your fix please?

Cheers.

Hello garfayliu,

This is what I did to stop slipping:

IMG_0901.jpg

This issue isn't resolved actually, I'm starting to get the same rubber rubbing noise again and I am 100% definite that the tie rod boot isn't the culprit now. It's fully secured and yet the noise still comes up when turning left.

And definitely over bumpy surface.
But noise is audible only after the engine is warmed up. It doesn't make noise at cold. Which I'm confused about.

So I need to investigate again... Maybe one of the upper arms might need replacing, as spartacus 68 suggested.

What I can suggest is to watch these two clips from YouTube. They both explains well about how to describe the noise and identify the problem by process of elimination:





Hopefully their advice can help you to home in on the potential suspects.

I will be doing this again when I have the time.

Oooh this is bugging me quite alot!

[defever]

Back to square one on this one...

Checked the wheel play as demonstrated on the two YouTube clips above and there's definitely no play.

The two upper control arms have slight play: I can move them about 5mm by hand. The nearside upper arms are rock solid.

I've noticed this time that the tie rod end is very loose. I can rock it quite easily in axial rotation. Nearside TRE is rock solid.

But both TRE were replaced in January so they should be okay? The service invoice says 2x tie rod assemblies so I'm presuming the outer and inner of both sides were replaced.

I tried yanking the tie rod to see if there's any play from the inner tie rod, but there's no play.

Perhaps it's time to unscrew the tie rod and replace parts as process of elimination, starting with the tie rod boot.

I'm just hoping that I don't need to remove tie rod end; bit scared of breaking the bolt or getting the tracking completely off.

The investigation continues...!!