DSG Brakes On To Engage Drive

[asm51]

With the DSG box does anyone else find it annoying, if not embarrassing, that when waiting at trafiic lights in neutral and with the handbrake on you have to press the brake pedal to engage drive. When the traffic lights turn green people behind expect you to just move off but instead see your brake lights come on.

I know this is a safety feature to prevent accidently engaging drive or reverse but I wish I did not have it. I think the button on the gear lever should have to be pressed to go from neutral to drive instead of the brake pedal.

[Freakinsweet]

Why put the car in neutral to begin with? The owners manual clearly states that it is not necessary. I always keep it in D.

[asm51]

Why put the car in neutral to begin with? The owners manual clearly states that it is not necessary. I always keep it in D.

I can't remember what the manual says but this is an extract from the Wikipedia entry:N position of the floor-mounted shift lever means that the transmission is in neutral (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/wiki/Neutral#other). Similar to P above, both clutch packs and all gear-sets are fully disengaged, however the parking lock is disengaged. This position should be used when the motor vehicle is stationary for a period of time, such as at red traffic lights (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/wiki/Traffic_light), or waiting in a queue of stationary traffic. The DSG should not be held in any of the active gear modes while stationary using the footbrake for other than brief periods - due to the clutches being held on the bite point, as this can overheat the clutches and transmission fluid.

[prise]

Wikipedia has been known to be wrong! Seriously what does VW recommend in the manual that came with the car?

[asm51]

Wikipedia has been known to be wrong! Seriously what does VW recommend in the manual that came with the car?

I've just looked at the manual and it does suggest you leave the car in drive for brief stops such as at traffic lights. However, with the DSG box there is a little creep when in drive therefore the clutch plates must be partially engaged. I'm therefore loathe to leave it in drive for more than a few seconds because to do so must be causing clutch wear. Unlike in a conventional auto box where your just slightly warming the torque converter fluid when stopped in drive in a DSG box it seems the same to me as slipping the clutch as in a manual box which I likewise keep to a minimum.

[HHGTTG]

I've just looked at the manual and it does suggest you leave the car in drive for brief stops such as at traffic lights. However, with the DSG box there is a little creep when in drive therefore the clutch plates must be partially engaged. I'm therefore loathe to leave it in drive for more than a few seconds because to do so must be causing clutch wear. Unlike in a conventional auto box where your just slightly warming the torque converter fluid when stopped in drive in a DSG box it seems the same to me as slipping the clutch as in a manual box which I likewise keep to a minimum.
I think for long delays one would be advised to go into neutral. Also it begs the question as to what you do when creeping along in traffic on a steep incline.
I don't have, or particularly like the sound of the operation of DSG and your questions only supports my suspicion as to wear and tear of an electronically controlled dry (or wet) dual clutch gearbox.

[Teflon]

The big no no is to leave it in Drive and put the handbrake on. This isn't such a big issue with the Passat (electronic handbrake), but my Golf definately didn't like it on the one ocasion a friend did it while driving the car.

Don't worry too much about burning clutches out for short stops. Anyone who has held a DSG on a steep upward slope knows that when you take your foot off the brake there is a brief roll back before the gearbox decides to start engaging the first gear clutch.

I always keep it in Neutral for stops of over a few seconds. You don't need to press the brake pedal too hard to slip it into Drive, the mearest feather touch will release the shift lock. Do this in the dark and watch out for brake lights. You will see that you can get it into Drive without he lights coming on. Also, if on a downward slope you can of course jsut roll in neutral for a few yards and slip it into Drive without needing the brake pedal.

[prise]

The 7 speed box disengages the clutch when the vehicle is stopped and the brake is on so clutch wear when stopped at the lights is not considered an issue with those boxes (one of the Oz forum members has verfied this with a data logger). Has anyone verified what the 6 speed box with the wet plate clutches does?

[jph2009]

Thoughts from Australia

I've driven in countries all over the world and could never understand the unique custom of UK drivers to use the handbrake every time they stop (even on level ground). I guessed that it was a technique handed down from teacher to student. The only time we use it here is on a manual car stopped on an uphill slope.

In Australia (and most other places I've driven) we use the foot brake to hold the car stationary.

Advantages include:

Your brake lights are on, indicating to drivers approaching from behind that you are stopped

If you are rear ended, the back of your car is lifted - so the hand brake, which only acts on the rear wheels, is ineffective. Better to have all 4 wheel braked.

For DSG drivers, the clutches disengage when the foot brake is applied and the hill hold function stops roll back when you take your foot off the brake to start moving again.

I never select N in normal driving situations.

Is hill hold an option in the UK? Its standard with DSG here.

Why do you guys use the handbrake???:confused:

[asm51]

In Australia (and most other places I've driven) we use the foot brake to hold the car stationary.

Advantages include:

Your brake lights are on, indicating to drivers approaching from behind that you are stopped

If you are rear ended, the back of your car is lifted - so the hand brake, which only acts on the rear wheels, is ineffective. Better to have all 4 wheel braked.

For DSG drivers, the clutches disengage when the foot brake is applied and the hill hold function stops roll back when you take your foot off the brake to start moving again.

I never select N in normal driving situations.

Is hill hold an option in the UK? Its standard with DSG here.

Why do you guys use the handbrake???:confused:

I think our driving instructors tell us to use the handbrake when stationary at lights in case a rear ender jars your foot off the footbrake and you are pushed into the car in front. Using the footbrake only is more of an autobox habit and autoboxes have only in the past few years realy taken off here because of our smaller cars, expensive petrol and less straight roads.

Hill hold is standard here.

I'm still convinced that holding the DSG box in drive when stationary for more than a few seconds is not a good idea.

[HHGTTG]

I think our driving instructors tell us to use the handbrake when stationary at lights in case a rear ender jars your foot off the footbrake and you are pushed into the car in front. Using the footbrake only is more of an autobox habit and autoboxes have only in the past few years realy taken off here because of our smaller cars, expensive petrol and less straight roads.

Hill hold is standard here.

I'm still convinced that holding the DSG box in drive when stationary for more than a few seconds is not a good idea.
I thought that I'd read somewhere that to keep on going from D to N also caused unnecessary transmission wear?

[asm51]

I thought that I'd read somewhere that to keep on going from D to N also caused unnecessary transmission wear?
I wish someone had the definitive answer to this.

[Roberts56]

Ru sure hill hold is standard?

Im pretty sure that its an available option?

[HHGTTG]

I wish someone had the definitive answer to this.
Read the discussions on HonestJohn's 'Backroom' forums. They have discussed how to drive autos in depth, I believe. In any case you could pose your question there as they seem to have a more mature clientele there.
I should know, as I subscribe sometimes!!!

[jph2009]

I did an experiment today, stopping on an up hill slope with the footbrake and then using the handbrake to remain stationary. I can see your concern now. The clutch does appear to engage once the foot brake is released and the engine then strains against the handbrake. It would appear the DSG transmission has not been designed to handle this situation.

I will be sticking with using the foot brake

[discobarry]

Insurance purposes too the handbrake thing isn't it? As when you stop your meant to be out of gear with the handbrake on, Sure it's something to do with insurance.

[prise]

I did an experiment today, stopping on an up hill slope with the footbrake and then using the handbrake to remain stationary. I can see your concern now. The clutch does appear to engage once the foot brake is released and the engine then strains against the handbrake. It would appear the DSG transmission has not been designed to handle this situation.

I will be sticking with using the foot brake

Well that's it then - VW says its OK to leave it in drive with foot brake applied at the lights and the evidence is that the clutch is disengaged with foot brake applied so what's the problem? I would go with the advice from the people that designed, built and warranty the car.

(waiting for a good flaming)

[asm51]

Ru sure hill hold is standard?

Im pretty sure that its an available option?

I've got the GT and I'm sure hill hold was standard on it but perhaps it is an option on other models.

[HHGTTG]

I've got the GT and I'm sure hill hold was standard on it but perhaps it is an option on other models.
Frankly it would be ludicrous to offer a system like DSG without a hill hold facility wouldn't it?

Purely as an observer you understand, I think that the DSG system is, in some respects, a flawed system in that it is fine for open road motoring but can show some aberrations in tight manoeuvring and stop/start town driving.

However, I might opt for it if someone else were paying for my car and I was expected to do some town driving

[SC03OTT]

You are meant to be ready for the lights turning green in the first place. Use the other lights, pedestrian lights and reflections from car/shop windows etc to prepare yourself for the green light. When you see the opposing light turn amber, get ready to go. This is how you are taught to drive. I appreciate this does not help you with 'should I leave it in neutral', but it should prevent the embarrassing situations you spoke of in the original post.

[keithwigley]

Probably done to satisfy US safety standards.

[samiur100]

I wish someone had the definitive answer to this.


I read this in the handbook last night, if you leave the car in neutral or coast along in neutral for long periods of time, it will cause problems for the dsg box.

[asm51]

I think I have found the definitive answer to if or if not the clutches on the DSG box are fully disengaged when stationary in drive with the foot brake on. After a long discussion on another forum here (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?71457-dsg-driving-technique) this chap seems to know what he is talking about:

The 'electrical contact' (which is in fact the same which is used to activate the brake lights) leaves the clutches partially engaged. -The purpose of this is to allow the user to 'creep' forward by modulating the pressure on the brake pedal alone.

You can FEEL the clutches engage MORE FULLY a second or two AFTER you let off the brake pedal, more so if you have the handbrake engaged to provide a more effective resistance against which you can assess the clutch-engagement.

Earlier software versions did indeed disconnect the clutches more completely, but automatic-only drivers (who were used to the torque convertor behaviour, and inching their car forward into a parking space by using only modulated brake pressure) complained that they couldn't do it at all well with the DSGs.

So there should be some qualification as to the software version, but basically for later software versions, the wiki quote above is in fact quite correct, and any assertion that the clutches are fully disengaged will only be occasionally true, for the earlier versions.

If what Renfrew wrote was correct, there would be no way for my car to inch forward... up a slight incline... with me having my foot on the brake. -but it does.

It is therefore my intention to continue going into neutral on any stops of over a few seconds.

[HHGTTG]

I think I have found the definitive answer to if or if not the clutches on the DSG box are fully disengaged when stationary in drive with the foot brake on. After a long discussion on another forum here (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?71457-dsg-driving-technique) this chap seems to know what he is talking about:

The 'electrical contact' (which is in fact the same which is used to activate the brake lights) leaves the clutches partially engaged. -The purpose of this is to allow the user to 'creep' forward by modulating the pressure on the brake pedal alone.

You can FEEL the clutches engage MORE FULLY a second or two AFTER you let off the brake pedal, more so if you have the handbrake engaged to provide a more effective resistance against which you can assess the clutch-engagement.

Earlier software versions did indeed disconnect the clutches more completely, but automatic-only drivers (who were used to the torque convertor behaviour, and inching their car forward into a parking space by using only modulated brake pressure) complained that they couldn't do it at all well with the DSGs.

So there should be some qualification as to the software version, but basically for later software versions, the wiki quote above is in fact quite correct, and any assertion that the clutches are fully disengaged will only be occasionally true, for the earlier versions.

If what Renfrew wrote was correct, there would be no way for my car to inch forward... up a slight incline... with me having my foot on the brake. -but it does.

It is therefore my intention to continue going into neutral on any stops of over a few seconds.
I still maintain that it is therefore not a very good system. Alright for the first time owner of a car with DSG but down the line at say 5 to 10 years, well, I don't know.

[bassmandan]

When I was taught to drive, I was taught to keep my foot on the footbrake at red lights as well as having the handbrake on, think this goes for everyone these days, so that would solve your problem :)

Also, I'm almost certain hill hold is standard on the dsg. It doesn't work on small inclines though, but the clutch should bite before the car rolls back too far.

[SC03OTT]

When I was taught to drive, I was taught to keep my foot on the footbrake at red lights as well as having the handbrake on, think this goes for everyone these days, so that would solve your problem :)


Never heard of that tbh. I don't want to go as far as saying you're wrong though lol. At night that would be hugely irritating, having someone's brake lights dazzling you for no reason.

[bassmandan]

At night that would be hugely irritating, having someone's brake lights dazzling you for no reason.

Yeah, agree, I try to not do it at night when there's a car behind me! It does kinda make sense though.

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Why do you guys use the handbrake???:confused:

Oh dear, you were never taught that? If someone smashes into the back of you, do you think your foot on the break is sufficient and that you will keep that foot on the break after being rammed from behind (snigger) at 40mph?

It's a safety thing. Don't do it, fine; just don't act like people that do are strange.

[Freakinsweet]

Oh dear, you were never taught that? If someone smashes into the back of you, do you think your foot on the break is sufficient and that you will keep that foot on the break after being rammed from behind (snigger) at 40mph?

It's a safety thing. Don't do it, fine; just don't act like people that do are strange.

Trust me, if someone would smash into you, the handbrake is equally pointless as the car will still move forward. I would never pull the handbrake during a stop...tedious and unnecessary.

[SC03OTT]

Trust me, if someone would smash into you, the handbrake is equally pointless as the car will still move forward. I would never pull the handbrake during a stop...tedious and unnecessary.

You're missing the point. The handbrake will stay on, your foot won't. Why would you want the car to keep perfectly still anyway? Allowing it to move dissipates some of the energy from the crash, reducing your injuries. Also, I don't understand how applying the handbrake is tedious. Are you honestly saying that taking 3 seconds to put the handbrake on is more tedious than sitting with your foot on the brake, keeping constant pressure whilst sitting in a queue for a minute or two?

I really don't think you though about that answer before typing it.

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Trust me, if someone would smash into you, the handbrake is equally pointless as the car will still move forward. I would never pull the handbrake during a stop...tedious and unnecessary.

In which of the following scenarios do you think a car will come to a stop more quickly, following a serious shunt in which the driver is shocked or injured sufficiently that they are unable to depress the foot brake:

A) Car hit from behind with handbrake off
B) Car hit from behind with handbrake on

You have one guess.

[Freakinsweet]

In which of the following scenarios do you think a car will come to a stop more quickly, following a serious shunt in which the driver is shocked or injured sufficiently that they are unable to depress the foot brake:

A) Car hit from behind with handbrake off
B) Car hit from behind with handbrake on

You have one guess.

I wont argue that the car will come to a stop more quickly with the handbrake engaged but so what? I still run the risk being pushed into oncoming traffic, pushed into the car in-front etc. When you are talking about an impact that will force the drivers foot off the brake it does not really matter how fast the car comes to a stop.

If using the handbrake during stops makes you feel save, keep on doing it. I won´t and it´s no point continue arguing on a forum either ;)

[asm51]

For those of use who do use the handbrake I think it would be a good idea if the clutches were fully disengaged when the car was stationary, no throttle applied and the handbrake was on. This would solve my problem anyway.

[p3asa]

Thoughts from Australia

I've driven in countries all over the world and could never understand the unique custom of UK drivers to use the handbrake every time they stop (even on level ground). I guessed that it was a technique handed down from teacher to student. The only time we use it here is on a manual car stopped on an uphill slope.


Probably out of courtesy for the driver behind you.
Nothing worse sitting behind someone at night at the lights with that dazzle in your eyes.

[Gerryf]

Hi guys, I'm a newbie that's found this thread invaluable with my decision to opt for the 7 speed DSG model. Most of my driving is bumper to bumper London driving and I didn't fancy having to knock the car in and out of gear on a constant basis.
(Should be collecting the car sometime in June)

Thanks for the excellent education

Gerry

[Keithuk]

Talking of DSG I downloaded a load of PDF files on VW systems. I can't tell you where from on here.

143 files of interesting reading. ;)

1.4-1.6_FSI_1
1.4-1.6_FSI_2
2.0_8V_PART1
2.0_8V_PART2
2.0_FSI_16V_TURBO
2.0_TDI
2.0_FSI
2.5_TDI
1900_TDI
AC SYSTEM
AC SYSTEM 2
CAMBELT_INTERVALS_DIESEL
Can2spec
CANBUS
DIESEL_EDC
DIESEL_EDC_2
DIESEL_EDC_3
DSG.pdf
ELECTRIC_STEERING
ELECTRO_PARKING_BRAKE
ELSAWIN
EOBD
GOLF_V
GOLF_V_2
GOLF_V_ELECTRICS
GOLF_V_ELECTRICS_2
GOLF_V_Running_Gear
Intro-e
RADIO
SERVICE_INTERVALS
ssp043_The Turbo Diesel 1.6L and 2.0L_d2
ssp186_CAN-Bus
ssp190_Adjustable Turbocharger
ssp202_VAS5051
ssp207_The Audi TT
ssp208_AC in the motor vehicle
ssp210_Electronic power control
SSP212_Variable Intake Manifold in VR Engines
ssp213_New Technology 1999
ssp221_Electronic manual gearbox
ssp222_Electronically Mapped Cooling System
ssp225_Electro-mechanical power steering
ssp228_Multitronic
ssp230_Motor vehicle exhaust emissions
ssp231_Euro-On-Board-Diagnose
ssp233_2 litre engine
ssp237_Manual Gearbox 02T
ssp243_Self Levelling Suspension Part 2 in the Audi Allroad
ssp246_Camshaft adjustment
ssp248_The W Engine Concept
ssp253_Direct Petrol Injection with Bosch MED 7
ssp255_The 2.0l R4 & 3.0l V6 engines
SSP256_VAS 5052
ssp257_Electric Vacuum Pump for BrakeServo Unit
SSP259_Electrically Power Hydraulic Steering
ssp264_Brake Assist System
ssp269_Data transfer on CAN data bus 2
ssp279_The 2.0L 110kW engine with petrol direct injection FSI
ssp286_New Data Bus Systems LIN,MOST,Bluetooth
SSP291_6-speed Automatic Gearbox 09G_Part_1
SSP291_6-speed Automatic Gearbox 09G_Part_2
ssp292_Adaptive Air Suspension in the Audi A8
ssp294_VAS 5051 on line link
SSP295_Diagnosis with VAS 5051, VAS5052 and VAS5053-Part1
SSP295_Diagnosis with VAS 5051, VAS5052 and VAS5053-Part2
ssp321_The Golf 2004 Running Gear
ssp322_The 2.0L FSI engine with 4-valve technology
SSP330_The Diesel Particulate Filter System With Additive
ssp331_gb1
ssp331_gb2
ssp333_4 Motion with Haldex coupling Model year 2004
ssp334_The Fuel system in FSI engines
ssp335_gb
ssp336_gb
ssp337_fo_d.ppt
ssp337_The 2.0L FSI Engine with Turbo Charger
ssp338_The Golf Plus 2005 - Part 1
ssp338_The Golf Plus 2005 - Part 2
ssp345_universal mobile phone prep
ssp372_The Shiftmatic Gearbox 0B81
SSP 175 OBD II
SSP 190 Adjustable Turbocharger
SSP 199 Radio Navigation System
SSP 200 Golf 4 (1)
SSP 200 Golf 4 (2)
SSP 200 Golf 4 (3)
SSP 202 VAS 5051
SSP 204 ESP
SSP 205 6 sp Gearbox 02M
SSP 206 4WD with Haldex Coupling
SSP 208 Air Conditioner in the Motor Vehicle (1)
SSP 208 Air Conditioner in the Motor Vehicle (2)
SSP 209 1.9 PD
SSP 210 EPC
SSP 211 New Beetle (3)
SSP 212 Varible Intake Manifolds in VR Engines
SSP 221 Electronic Manual Gearbox
SSP 222 Electronically Mapped Cooling System
SSP 224 VariableServicing
SSP 225 Electro-Mechanical PS System
SSP 230 Motor Vehicle Exhaust Emissions
SSP 231 EOBD
SSP 233 2.0 litre Engine (1)
SSP 233 2.0 litre Engine (2)
SSP 235 Multi Function Wheel (1)
SSP 235 Multi Function Wheel (2)
SSP 237 02T Manual Box (1)
SSP 237 02T Manual Box (2)
SSP 238 Data exchange on CAN Bus 1
SSP 246 Variable Valve Timing
SSP 248 W Engine Concept
SSP 252 1.4 Lupo FSi Engine
SSP 253 Motronic MED7
SSP 256 VAS 5052
SSP 257 Electro Vacuum Pump for Brake Servo
SSP 259 EHPower Steering
SSP 264 Brake Assist (1)
SSP 264 Brake Assist (2)
SSP 269 CAN Bus II
SSP 279 2.0 FSi
SSP 286 New Data Bus Systems (1)
SSP 286 New Data Bus Systems (2)
SSP 294 VAS 5051 On line link, Immobilizer 4
SSP 299 6 sp Manual Gearbox 08D
SSP 300 6 sp Auto Box 09D (1)
SSP 300 6 sp Auto Box 09D (2)
SSP 300 6 sp Auto Box 09D (3)
SSP 303 V10 TDI Engine (1)
SSP 303 V10 TDI Engine (2)
SSP 304 EDC 16 (1)
SSP 304 EDC 16 (2)
SSP 304 EDC 16 (3)
SSP 315 EOBD Diesel
SSP 317 EHPS with Dual Pinion
SSP 318 Golf 5 (1)
SSP 318 Golf 5 (2)
SSP 319 The Golf 2004 Electrics (1)
SSP 319 The Golf 2004 Electrics (2)
UNIT_INJECTORS
V5_ENGINE
VARIABLE_TURBO
VR_INTAKE
W_ENGINE_CONCEPT

Along with 32 PDF's on general car stuff ABS, Charging, Common Rail, EFI. AirCon, Emissions, Fault Codes, Modern Diesels, Multiplexing, Primary v Secondary, Sensors, Spark Plugs, Trigger Signals. VW Technical - Entire Vehicle Golf Plus, Electrical Systems, Comfort and Safety Electronics and Piezo-Pumps.

[jjh]

I've just parted company with an A3 TDI 170 DSG covering 85000 miles. In those three years I never popped the gear lever into N as some advise and never had any issue whatsoever with the clutch.

If I would be asked my honest opinion I'd have say dont worry about it. It can handle it.

Having just said that, out of courtesy to the driver behind in close traffic I would pop the lever into P.

Even when I parked the carI wouldnt use the hand brake. The car had hill hold too so the handbrake hardly got used at all.

[martydoc]

I assume that auto hold is not a standard feature on all DSG boxes then? I use this when driving through town. With this my DSG never gets out of "D" at the lights...............

[johnloaderuk]

I assume that auto hold is not a standard feature on all DSG boxes then? I use this when driving through town. With this my DSG never gets out of "D" at the lights...............

Passat B6 = electronic handbrake, Golf MK6 = mechanical handbrake with a lever thingy.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Keithuk]

Passat B6 = electronic handbrake, Golf MK6 = mechanical handbrake with a lever thingy.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thats correct. ;)

[prise]

Its important that we make a distinction between the 6 speed DSG with wet plate clutches and the 7 speed with dry plate clutches when posting advice on this topic. I own a 7 speed DSG ca and can confirm that the clutches are disengaged when its stopped in D with the foot brake applied (this has also been confirmed by datalogging from a Aus forum member (look for posts from datalogger) . All the 6 speed DSG cars I have driven have crept forward under light brake pressure indicating that there is some clutch engagement presnet in D with footbrake on.

If you own a 7 spd DSG car and wish to put it into neutral it would need to be for reasons other than clutch wear.

[asm51]

I own a 7 speed DSG ca and can confirm that the clutches are disengaged when its stopped in D with the foot brake applied (this has also been confirmed by datalogging from a Aus forum member (look for posts from datalogger) . All the 6 speed DSG cars I have driven have crept forward under light brake pressure indicating that there is some clutch engagement presnet in D with footbrake on.

I'm pleased to read this and hope it is correct as beforehand I read the complete opposite. I read that the 6 speed boxes completely disengaged the clutches when the footbrake was depressed (only when stationary I suppose) but not so the 7 speed. The reason given for this change was that people complained with the 6 speed that they could not roll into a parking place by feathering the footbrake as one can with a conventional auto box.

I also note that the manual says only to leave it in drive for 'short periods' such as at Traffic lights which led to believe that the clutches were not fully disengaged. However this may have been refereing to the 6 speed boxes.

I would be interested to read the posts by the 'Aus forum' member. Please will you provide a link.

[Gerryf]

Hi Asm, I did manage to find definitive info that stated the 7 speed DSG does indeed disengage drive whilst the brake is pressed at standstill.

I'll post a link if I manage to find the VW article.

[Gerryf]

You could consider posing your query on the "ask a VW mechanic" a question :

here (http://www.justanswer.com/tags/UK-Car/volkswagen?r=ppc|ga|5|Cars|Volkswagen&JCRN=Volkswagen+Mechanics&JPKW=volkswagen%20engine&JPDC=C&JPST=www.vwforum.co.uk&JPAD=4251122328&JPAF=txt&JPCD=20091211&JPRC=1&ShowExperts=1&JCLT=Volkswagen&JPOP=Cass_UKCarTag_Tagged&gclid=CJH26J36y6ACFQiT3wodRiB5zw)

[prise]

Here's the post:

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/showthread.php?36524-DSG7-0AM-Vag-Com-Data-Logs

Here's the log:

http://www.nimblefeet.com/QF/DSG7%20Drive%20Log.xls

You can see that when the vehicle is stopped in drive that the K1 clutch (the K2 clutch if R is selected) is moved to a point prior to where its starts to engage. Presumably this is done to reduce the time delay from when you take your foot off the brake and the clutch engages. This is consistent with the feel of the car because when you take your foot off the brake on a slight incline there is a short period of roll back before the clutch engages. If the clutch was slipping you woudn't get roll back on slight gradients. On steeper gradients it uses the hill hold function.

[asm51]

Here's the post:

You can see that when the vehicle is stopped in drive that the K1 clutch (the K2 clutch if R is selected) is moved to a point prior to where its starts to engage. Presumably this is done to reduce the time delay from when you take your foot off the brake and the clutch engages. This is consistent with the feel of the car because when you take your foot off the brake on a slight incline there is a short period of roll back before the clutch engages. If the clutch was slipping you woudn't get roll back on slight gradients. On steeper gradients it uses the hill hold function.

Thanks. I've now got to get out of the habit of selecting Neutral.

[SBQOF]

My recent purchase may help to decide this once and for all. Bear with me as I'm not a car expert.

Just taken delivery of a 1.6 TDI SE with Bluemotion Tech and 7 speed DSG. The Bluemotion has the stop/start function. This kicks in on the manual version when the car is stationary and the clutch pedal is fully depressed and/or the car is in neutral. On my DGS version, the stop/start kicks in basically whenever the car stops. It kicks in when the car is in Drive with my foot on the foot break. This would suggest to me that the clutch is fully disengaged.