2015 golf 2.0 gt tdi fueling problem - p0087 - please help - any specialists in manchester?

[billy187]

Hi Guys,

Recently bought a 2015 VW Golf 2.0 GT TDI and need help with getting it to run right. It is a DSG model.

The car when it eventually did start would run very rough with an obvious fueling problem. VCDS scan showed up a P0087 code for Fuel Rail/System Pressure too low.

The garage started off by changing the fuel filter which did not help.

I then source a known good fuel rail with the sensors on each side and had the garage swap this over and again it did not help.

The garage pulled and checked the in tank fuel pump and assured me it seemed to be working as it should although they had no way of measuring this to make sure 100%.

All online searches after this led us to believe that it could be the high pressure fuel pump and so i sourced a known working good used pump and had the garage change this over and also change the timing belt and water pump at the same time as they were there. Although it initially seemed to run alot better, it still wasnt right and still had some sort of fueling issue. The car runs but randomly cuts out, sometimes straightaway, sometimes after a good while. VCDS scan still shows up the P0087 code.

VCDS scan shows up several other voltage faults but this is likely to due it having a new battery recently and not being driven since.

Lately im struggling to get it to start at all.

Anyone got any ideas?

Anyone able to recommend someone who knows their stuff in Manchester to take a look?

Thanks

Billy

[Crasher]

Unless the system was thoroughly bled using the pump run function in basic settings, even a brand new pump can be destroyed in seconds and this can send swarf from the pumps body into the injectors and it cannot be removed. Why Bosch did not apply a technical coating such as Teflon or DLC to the pumps body only Bosch and VW will know the answer although we can all guess.

[philipharmes]

" Anyone got any ideas? "

The high pressure fuel pump can only supply a limited amount of high pressure fuel.

If one or more of the injectors is leaking fuel back to the return pipe, correct pressure won't be able to be attained.

The same goes for the pressure regulator on the HPFP if that is leaking.

It's fairly simple to check the return spill pipes for excessive leakage from the injectors.

[Roverfan]

It seems you are at square one again with the repair. It needs to be checked if the in tank strainer is clean when fuel level is low, also if the inline electric fuel pump (second electric fuel pump) is working.

There is plenty of possibilities but one is the hpfp is yet at fault.the recommended repair is to change all associated components in one go so the swarf is eliminated. Since your previous repairs were done one at a time its hard to calculate whether its the previous swarf or the newer pump or both.

Was the newer pump adapted?

[Crasher]

Not all of them have the intermediate electric high pressure fuel pump (it looks like a variant of the Bosch 044) and I know on the ones that do, I have never seen a mechanical HPFP fail which is telling. I think removing it must have been a cost saving measure. Billy, as someone has been at the lift pump, check the fuel lines are on the right way around, I have seen a number where these have been interchanged... the daft thing is with a full tank they still run!

https://live.staticflickr.com/4869/31443696297_4382a6dcff_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PUzaqM)
https://flic.kr/p/PUzaqM

[billy187]

Thank you for all the replies guys.

Is there anyway to get my old HPFP tested ? If so and that comes back as good it will mean I can maybe eliminate that as being the problem? The garage said there were no signs of metal shavings etc when they removed the original pump.

Thanks for that picture Crasher, I have actually ordered a new in tank pump to try which should arrive soon, will check the way the pipes are fitted tomorrow.

The car is difficult to start, easy start helps get it going and sometimes it will turn off straightaway, other times it will idle fine for a long time. Engine is clearly in limp mode when running and slightly revving it will sometimes make the coil light flash but no engine management light is on. When running and since the HPFP was changed however, it does sound 10x better but obviously has not sorted the low fuel pressure P0087 code.

Just checked my VCDS scan and I also seem to have a related P1065 fault code?

There is an obvious ticking sound coming from somewhere in the engine bay after the car has been running also, not sure if linked?

It’s a shame I can’t really find any local specialists who seem to know what they are talking about either and so the car is back with me for now until I can pinpoint what the problem is or maybe until I find someone trustworthy to take a look. Already spent so much money on it and not any where closer to getting it running properly again.

I have recently got VCDS, is there anything in particular such as live data that I can get from here and compare that may help? If so any help would really be appreciated.

[billy187]

A couple of pics below of the wiring on the intank pump and also fuel filter housing, any ideas if my in tank fuel pump looks right with the 2 wiring connectors? All pics i have found online show one larger connector only and the new pump i ordered also has one larger connector?:
37823
37824

[Crasher]

Black is feed blue return. I have a Golf 7 on one of the lifts, I will take a picture.

[billy187]

Thank you

[Crasher]

Yes, that is correct

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51005468118_6c14cb9e79_o.jpg

[billy187]

Thank you for checking Crasher.

Any other ideas on what else to check?

[billy187]

Image below of some figures i have just taken from VCDS with the car running, mean anything to anyone?

37825

[Crasher]

At a glance they look OK.

[billy187]

Quick update with this:

It seems as though i didnt realise all along that after the garage initially fitted a replacement HPFP and erased the codes, the P0087 low fuel pressure code has not returned. If the low fuel pressure was a problem, would you expect this code to return after the engine has been running?

A new VCDS scan shows no engine faults but the car struggles to start, easy start helps it initially and it is much better when warm but still takes a while before it starts. Once started and running the engine almost sounds normal but it has a frequent tendency to just cut out randomly and more so when cold. Sometimes when idling the glow plug light will flash and the revs will hunt up and down slightly before settling again. Also in limp mode.

Not sure if this could suggest a different problem? Could it be EGR related, not sure if this is a problem on the MK7's.

Thanks

[Crasher]

If the glow plug light flashes, it has stored a code. The EGR unit on the Golf 7 so far is OK.

[billy187]

Hi Guys,

As a follow up to this, a local garage today has had a look at the car. Car was driven and is blowing out white smoke, more so when warmed up. Drives ok but occasionally is jerky with some sort of misfire.

Garage initially thought it may be an injector but had a look and dont think it is after checking. They have found that all 4 glow plugs have diesel in them which bubbles and increases when the car warms up. They believe it is likely to mean the head has a crack and my options are to either have the head taken off and sent to an machinist to be checked and repaired if possible or id be better of sourcing a known good used engine to replace.

Anyone experienced the leaking fuel at the glow plugs before?

[Crasher]

Get them to look at the back of the head for this casting number

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50812825328_f0f552b07c_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kqa1Fj)

[billy187]

Hi Crasher, any particular reason why?

[Crasher]

Humour me...:D

[billy187]

Is it possible to see those castings numbers with the engine and turbo still fitted?

[Crasher]

Yes, with a mirror.

[billy187]

Popped to the garage quickly after work to have a look but definitely could not see the casting numbers on the back without having to take bits off.

[Crasher]

Without that number I am stuck.

[Roverfan]

Try phone camera with torch on, it might just work

[billy187]

Tried with a phone and mirror. Looks like there is a heat shield bolted over that area too? Do bits actually need to be removed?

[Crasher]

Not on the ones I have checked

[billy187]

Quick Update on this:

New engine fitted with complete ancillaries from a known good car which i saw running before being removed. Only thing swapped over was my flywheel and engine wiring loom from my old engine as the new engine came from a manual and mine is DSG.

Car is still taking 6-7 secs turning over before it will start , also drives fine and normally with no smoke etc but engine still sounds rough on idle like its still being starved of fuel? Really getting tired of it all now. No engine fault codes showing other than a couple of databus codes for the ACC. It is pretty much exactly the same as the original engine was to be honest so believe i can rule out anything engine related.

Car has already had a new pump in the tank and fuel pump control module. Thinking about replacing the 2 fuel lines under the car now just to rule them out as that is the only thing left that hasnt been done. If no luck there, do i move onto the electronics side? ECU?

[Crasher]

Check the lines on the fuel delivery unit are the corcet way around, black is feed, blue is return. The top of the sender is marked.

[billy187]

Check the lines on the fuel delivery unit are the corcet way around, black is feed, blue is return. The top of the sender is marked.

Checked the lines again and they are definately the correct way round.

Also can now finally confirm the casting number on the back of the head you requested is V120. Alot easier now the engine is out.

Could a worn flywheel cause these symptoms?

[Crasher]

All castings up to and including 230 have the potential for internal leakage problems, is this a CUNA engine?

[billy187]

It’s a CRLB.

[Crasher]

And still no relevant fault codes, just white smoke as per the original engine?

[billy187]

And still no relevant fault codes, just white smoke as per the original engine?

New engine doesn’t smoke like the old one and drives fine whereas the original engine did give off white smoke and was jerky.

Other than the above it starts and sounds exactly like the original engine did which leaves us with very little else to check?

No fault codes on the engine side other than the ACC using VCDS.

[Crasher]

But poor starting? You need to do a cranking RPM test, immobilise the engine by removing the ECU relay and crank it over whilst watching the RPM in Measuring Blocks.

[wade261182]

Hi everyone, newbie here.
I’m aware this is a fairly old thread but it relates to the hpfp which I’m in need of some advice with.
I noticed a wiff of diesel, popped the bonnet and noticed fuel leaking from the inlet metering valve on top of the hpfp. It seems to be dripping from the connector.
I know Audi don’t sell the inlet valve separately,
However Delphi sell the part which I ordered and fitted following the instructions… still leaking.
No fault codes, car drives fine. No shavings on old imv mesh filter, no fillings in fuel filter, fuel filter changed every year and followed priming process, started straight away, oil changed every 5k miles.
I’m a bit stumped… any help would be grateful.

Thanks

[shahid1973]

What was the outcome was your problem fixed?