slow 0-60?

[nlevin86]

i recently purchased a new 2017 A6 3.0t Quattro premium plus. I followed the owners Manuel for proper break in and once I hit 1,000 miles, I thought i would see what it could really do. Seemed a little slower than I expended so I though I would clock the 0-60 time. Every time I keep getting 5.5 seconds. Several sources claimed they were able to hit 4.6. Now I understand I'm using a timer so there is probably a few tenths of second difference in my response and accuracy, but still. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[KevTrem]

Your engine and transmission haven't bedded in properly yet. Try again when it hits about 25k and everything has loosened up. BTW 5.5seconds is far from slow for a 2ton lump

Also try the premium fuel rather than the regular and try running the 0-60 at night when temps are cooler, LA is hot during the day

[AT.]

Every time I keep getting 5.5 seconds.

You could check your "car settings", maybe there are some "automatic" settings against to Dynamic.

[zollaf]

keep trying .. are you doing it right, its not easy to get a proper quick time unless you do it all the time. i dont know if you are a track experienced driver but if not you could ask someone that is, see if they can get a quicker time. also see if you can get it on a track to get a proper time.

[bbrown1664]

1000 miles on a diesel is not run in properly. i.e. it would not have loosened up properly yet.

Try it again once you hit 20,000 miles.

5.5s should be quick enough though unless your a boy racer.

[NewAudi]

1000 miles on a diesel is not run in properly. i.e. it would not have loosened up properly yet.

Try it again once you hit 20,000 miles.

5.5s should be quick enough though unless your a boy racer.

He has the 3-litre petrol version, but you are absolutely correct, after only a 1000 miles, the engine is not run in yet.

[dtwort]

Are you using launch control?

[ukgroucho]

As noted it is not run in yet.

I think the 4.6 sec time was from Car and Driver mag or similar.. they would have had a car that had more miles on it and a professional driver who would have applied "proper" abuse off the line (see below).

If your car is like my brothers (he lives in Northern California) it is a Tiptronic 8 speed (ZF gearbox). This is different to European 3.0T (Supercharged) engines which are few and far between and use the 7 speed S-tronic and have launch control. I don't think the ZF boxes have launch control (officially) and you will lose about a half second as the gearbox winds up.

Forget manual timers.. if you have an iPhone then drop the few dollars to get an app like Dynolicious, which takes care of the timing for you - there are similar apps for android but I cannot recommend one (no real experience).
With my allroad 3.0 BiTdi which is supposed to do 5.6 secs to 60 that is exactly what we got when flooring it in sports mode... but you could feel lag off the line as the gearbox gets it's act together and the turbos spool up.

Using the "it's not launch control BUT" approach I got a 4.9 sec 0- 60. Approach is as follows: ESP off, hold throttle with brake on at 2800RPM (so big turbo awake) and dump brake whilst transitioning to full throttle.
With your supercharged engine you don't need to be that rough but I'd suggest ESP off, brake on, build revs to maybe 1800 - 2000rpm and dump brake whilst applying full throttle.

At the end of the day I'm not sure it matters that much... it's a superb engine with great mid-range but if you really need to scratch that 0 - 60 itch then I hope this helps.

[cjmcb]

Not sure if the gearboxes are designed for multiple launches- a friend with an e60 m5 had a massive bill for a rebuild after many (too many) launches. The 3.0 BiTDi is only quoted of doing it in 5.1s with the 320ps engine.

The harshest thing to do to an auto is full bore launches from a standstill.

[ukgroucho]

Not sure if the gearboxes are designed for multiple launches- a friend with an e60 m5 had a massive bill for a rebuild after many (too many) launches. The 3.0 BiTDi is only quoted of doing it in 5.1s with the 320ps engine. The harshest thing to do to an auto is full bore launches from a standstill.

Agreed.
The allroad is heavier than the saloon hence 5.6 secs to 62 MPH (100 kph) is "quoted". The difference between the 313PS and 320PS engines in terms of acceleration is pretty negligible as they both produce 650nM torque and that is going to be the deciding factor. I suspect that Audi quote 0-100kph times by just flooring the car in sports mode.
When flooring the allroad in sports mode i did 5.6 secs or thereabouts - and you could feel - and see on the dynolicious graph - that you lost a chunk of time initially getting 'off the line'. I only ever did the pseudo launch control thing once and it made a huge difference (the shove off the line is impressive).

What this does highlight though is that the real world pace - the mid-range acceleration once the car is wound up - is even better than the 0 - 100kph figures would suggest.

[ChuckMountain]

Launch control is in the manual (MMI) for the 320ps and does seem to improve the time, may well try that app though. It basically revs it the engine to around 3000rpm from memory and dumps the "clutch" and away you go. There are plenty of health warnings too about it in the manual.

What I wasn't sure when I tried is it doesn't specifically tell you, nor does it seem that much difference to just keeping foot on brake, but I didn't want to try latter in case ...

[ChuckMountain]

The procedure to do is, switch engine stop\start off, ESP off, into sport, foot hard on brake, foot hard down on throttle, let go of brake within 5 seconds ...

[Jackblack]

The BITDI gearbox is good for 1250 nm. My BITDI was running 329 BHP fro factory it was a 313.
Im in process of stage 3 upgrade.
Rs6 airbox and KN filter - fitted. Direct fit no mods. ;-). The part number of the K&N air filter is: E-1983 (audi S6 or A6 3.0tfsi) The airbox is from a RS6 (part number 4G0 133 836 AF).
Wagner competition intercooler. Arriving this week. http://www.wagner-tuning.uk/200001103.html
DPF delete. Taking place in tuning shop
Final rolling road tune. Taking place in shop.
DPF delete
460 BHP 900 NM
Hoping for mid to low 4.0 secs.



Not sure if the gearboxes are designed for multiple launches- a friend with an e60 m5 had a massive bill for a rebuild after many (too many) launches. The 3.0 BiTDi is only quoted of doing it in 5.1s with the 320ps engine.

The harshest thing to do to an auto is full bore launches from a standstill.

[mrmarc]

The BITDI gearbox is good for 1250 nm. My BITDI was running 329 BHP fro factory it was a 313.
Im in process of stage 3 upgrade.
Rs6 airbox and KN filter - fitted. Direct fit no mods. ;-). The part number of the K&N air filter is: E-1983 (audi S6 or A6 3.0tfsi) The airbox is from a RS6 (part number 4G0 133 836 AF).
Wagner competition intercooler. Arriving this week. http://www.wagner-tuning.uk/200001103.html
DPF delete. Taking place in tuning shop
Final rolling road tune. Taking place in shop.
DPF delete
460 BHP 900 NM
Hoping for mid to low 4.0 secs.

I'd be very surprised if the BiTDI gearbox is good for 1250nm reliably. I’m sure there was someone on here who had problems with his gearbox when he had his car remapped for 850nm.

[Jackblack]

Why would you be surprised ? What knowledge / experience do yo have on these boxes or engines ? It would be good to know. Thanks.
I'd be very surprised if the BiTDI gearbox is good for 1250nm reliably. I’m sure there was someone on here who had problems with his gearbox when he had his car remapped for 850nm.

[ukgroucho]

@JackBlack I'd be very interested in understanding where you got the 1250nM number from because, like mrmarc, I am very doubtful.

- On ZFs own web site their listing for the ZF8HP specifically states torque ranges from 300nM to 1000nM. If they could support 1250nM reliably I'm pretty sure they'd publish that info.
- There are a large number of variants of the ZF8HP and I doubt that Audi fitted the 1000nM variant to the BiTdi when the 8HP700 or 8HP750 variants would do the job.

In general it has been hard to establish exactly which variant is fitted to BiTdi cars (and there has been lots of discussion) so if you have a solid reference it would be very interesting.

[mrmarc]

Why would you be surprised ? What knowledge / experience do yo have on these boxes or engines ? It would be good to know. Thanks.

It would be good to know "What knowledge / experience you have on these boxes or engine" also.

[Jackblack]

My background is speaking to tuners, master techs, ZF and Audi.
Look mate if you haven't got any background on these machines and are on here playing games answering questions with questions please don't I'm serious about tuning my car and haven't got time to waste replying to nonsense. I thought you may have had some relevant conversations with qualified people that why i asked.

It would be good to know "What knowledge / experience you have on these boxes or engine" also.

[Jackblack]

Hi Uk Groucho,

As you know i have been round the houses with this one as their is indeed a lot off ambiguity to whats real. My car is going to Holland at the end of the month for my tune to a company called JDR engineering. They have tuned a lot of the BITDI and i have been talking with them for the last year about getting my car to stg3.
It was quoted from them this week of over the phone that the boxes can take 1250 nm. That information arose as once again i asked them about longterm lifespan for the boxes after the stg3 upgrade.Thats the source. How they verify that I'm not sure. But nobody in the Uk can match their tuning figures for the BITDI - but thats another story altogether that i wont get into on this thread save for the uniformed chipping in.
@JackBlack I'd be very interested in understanding where you got the 1250nM number from because, like mrmarc, I am very doubtful.

- On ZFs own web site their listing for the ZF8HP specifically states torque ranges from 300nM to 1000nM. If they could support 1250nM reliably I'm pretty sure they'd publish that info.
- There are a large number of variants of the ZF8HP and I doubt that Audi fitted the 1000nM variant to the BiTdi when the 8HP700 or 8HP750 variants would do the job.

In general it has been hard to establish exactly which variant is fitted to BiTdi cars (and there has been lots of discussion) so if you have a solid reference it would be very interesting.

[mrmarc]

Hi Uk Groucho,

As you know i have been round the houses with this one as their is indeed a lot off ambiguity to whats real. My car is going to Holland at the end of the month for my tune to a company called JDR engineering. They have tuned a lot of the BITDI and i have been talking with them for the last year about getting my car to stg3.
It was quoted from them this week of over the phone that the boxes can take 1250 nm. That information arose as once again i asked them about longterm lifespan for the boxes after the stg3 upgrade.Thats the source. How they verify that I'm not sure. But nobody in the Uk can match their tuning figures for the BITDI - but thats another story altogether that i wont get into on this thread save for the uniformed chipping in.

So a man on the phone said so makes it so ??? kiss good bye to your gearbox

[mrmarc]

My background is speaking to tuners, master techs, ZF and Audi.
Look mate if you haven't got any background on these machines and are on here playing games answering questions with questions please don't I'm serious about tuning my car and haven't got time to waste replying to nonsense. I thought you may have had some relevant conversations with qualified people that why i asked.

Your background is talking to people !
You don't even know what gearbox you have in your car

[Tendaimwari]

JDR Engineering tuned my S4 and know their stuff. Whilst my car was being tuned there was an array of racing VW/Audi cars from Holland, Belgium and Germany there were at different stages of tuning. I actually drove from N. Germany to get my tune. They have a very high reputation in Europe. So don't knock that man on the end of the phone.

[mrmarc]

JDR Engineering tuned my S4 and know their stuff. Whilst my car was being tuned there was an array of racing VW/Audi cars from Holland, Belgium and Germany there were at different stages of tuning. I actually drove from N. Germany to get my tune. They have a very high reputation in Europe. So don't knock that man on the end of the phone.

But where is the evidence that these boxes are good for 1250nm ? Only people who can truly say how much the box can take is zf and there saying max input torque is 650 nm
I'm not here to play games or answer question with questions I mearly said I'd be surprised if the gearbox can handle 1250nm reliably and also someone else and the bloke flew of the handle.

[zollaf]

zf will say that they are safe to a certain level so they dont have to pay out warranty claims for people with silly power. its like an old o1e box (audi s4), they are safe to 1000 bhp, but audi wont admit to that. you only know what a box is safe to when you put that much power through it and it doesn't break. so the problem is finding people that run with that much power and can say yes, the box is ok ..

[mrmarc]

zf will say that they are safe to a certain level so they dont have to pay out warranty claims for people with silly power. its like an old o1e box (audi s4), they are safe to 1000 bhp, but audi wont admit to that. you only know what a box is safe to when you put that much power through it and it doesn't break. so the problem is finding people that run with that much power and can say yes, the box is ok ..

I agree with you zf will say there ok to a certain level but to nearly double there max rated input ! Like I said I'd be surprised if it can handle it reliably

[Jackblack]

They are very well respected.
JDR Engineering tuned my S4 and know their stuff. Whilst my car was being tuned there was an array of racing VW/Audi cars from Holland, Belgium and Germany there were at different stages of tuning. I actually drove from N. Germany to get my tune. They have a very high reputation in Europe. So don't knock that man on the end of the phone.

[Jackblack]

Your useless. Go a troll somewhere else. Not one bit of useful information and a horrible attitude too boot.
So a man on the phone said so makes it so ??? kiss good bye to your gearbox

[mrmarc]

Your useless. Go a troll somewhere else. Not one bit of useful information and a horrible attitude too boot.

Jack black I think your describing yourself there. Seems you don't like people remarking on your posts

[Jackblack]

Mr Marc I'm totally up for people commenting on my posts and interacting in a intelligent, articulate way and adding to the debate. If your just here to noise people up, troll and spout rubbish then move on. Im in the process of spending a reasonable wedge modifying my near £60k motor and there has been a lot of serious consideration, planning, application of capital and homework on my and other peoples part to make it happen. Your chat is nigh on useless and childish.
Jack black I think your describing yourself there. Seems you don't like people remarking on your posts

[mrmarc]

Mr Marc I'm totally up for people commenting on my posts and interacting in a intelligent, articulate way and adding to the debate. If your just here to noise people up, troll and spout rubbish then move on. Im in the process of spending a reasonable wedge modifying my near £60k motor and there has been a lot of serious consideration, planning, application of capital and homework on my and other peoples part to make it happen. Your chat is nigh on useless and childish.

I was adding to the debate but you though your teddy out the pram. I was not the only one who doubted your 1250nm claim but I'm the trolling child. If you think your 60k car can handle it go for it.

[Jackblack]

I am going for it and if breaks itll be tough titty for me - i know all this I've spent a year thinking about and researching it. Ive no problem people questioning the 1250 nm claim but answering my questions with another question is moronic and so far off what this forums designed for i.e exchanging information. Anyway moving on.
I was adding to the debate but you though your teddy out the pram. I was not the only one who doubted your 1250nm claim but I'm the trolling child. If you think your 60k car can handle it go for it.

[Whippy53]

Your useless. Go a troll somewhere else. Not one bit of useful information and a horrible attitude too boot.

Don't ever change jamie, please.

[fest0r]

Did they let you out on early release Whippy … have you got a tag now? :fing02:

[mrmarc]

I am going for it and if breaks itll be tough titty for me - i know all this I've spent a year thinking about and researching it. Ive no problem people questioning the 1250 nm claim but answering my questions with another question is moronic and so far off what this forums designed for i.e exchanging information. Anyway moving on.

I think you took my initial post the wrong way, I was expressing an opinion thats all. I don't know where I answered your question with a question but like you said moving on.
I have also looked into big power and the gearbox in our cars is the zf 8hp55a I've looked at either upgrading the clutch pack inside the gearbox (yes the tiptronic auto has a clutch pack) or seeing if a zf 8hp90a gearbox that is rated to a 1000nm will fit.

[Whippy53]

Did they let you out on early release Whippy … have you got a tag now? :fing02:

Bagged and tagged, running around in an old fiat at the moment while I sort out my house in France. Got a booking for easter and the roofs not finished! Thought i'd just log in cos it's been a while and it's not changed much. Hope you're keeping well.:o

[fest0r]

Je vais bien, merci :beerchug:

[Sam]

Now that International Women's Day has finished, would you ladies like to get back to the topic at hand.

Please discuss your well expensive cars, innit, without throwing petty insults at each other.