Top end engine rattle after Emissions Recall

[Motorway]

Our 2011 Passat Estate 2.0tdi 140 Bluemotion was in for service the other day. it was only an oil service and pollen filter change. i had also got the letter inviting me to have the emissions recall done.

before the car went in it was running great with no issues, and i did wonder if it was worth having the emissions recall work done. but the dealer assured me all the bugs had been sorted out and i should see no difference to the car. initially i did not economy did seem to be OK, about the same on local miles. not done a long run yet so cannot comment on that yet. however the engine did sound different straight away as soon as i drove out of the dealers. it was a hot day and aircon was running, the difference was a deeper exhaust note, similar to when the DPF is in re-gen mode, but without the increase in engine speed and cooling fan.

now the weather has cooled to the normal british summer temps aircon is not running as much and another noise has been noticed, it sounds like tappet noise. when you change gear in accordance with the shift change light the revs drop to approx 1200rpm you hear this tappety noice until the revs pick up to 1500approx. this noise is most noticable in town driving when you change from 3rd to 4th with a road speed of 30mph engine speed is just below 1200rpm and with light throttle the tappety noise is constant. with more throttle even at the same speed, i.e pulling uphil the noise goes away.

i have checked oil levels all OK and remover oil filler and plenty of oil is reaching top of the engine, i have also checked drive belt tension just in case the belt was slapping at this low speed (had this on a Landrover discovery).

as the service was just Oil filter and pollen filter there is nothing that the service routine could have done to make this change. the tappety noise was not there before the service. so i can only assume that the emissions recall (software update) must have caused this. does any of the knowledgable people know exactly what is adjusted on this software upgrade. my opiniion is there is some change in injection timing or valve timing or a combination of both to cause this noise. i could do with a bit more information before i go back with the car to the dealer.

any coments / help would be most appreciated
thanks

[martin1810]

until someone posts an emissions recall changed ecu file on line it is impossible to know what changes have been made. In theory the changes should have no effect at all as they were meant to remove the "test cheat" part of the file.

[rowdy-999]

Has it not mentioned on here, that to reduce the NOX levels they alter the engine timing? I'm no expert on diesel engine timing, but I assume it could make the engine sound and run different.

Other than that it could be as simple as a loose fitting engine cover or other component?

[Gazwould]

The engine is retarded to produce less NOx , as diesel has an ignition delay anyway further retarding will cause diesel knock .

[rowdy-999]

The engine is retarded to produce less NOx , as diesel has an ignition delay anyway further retarding will cause diesel knock .


So you're saying the recall can cause extra 'knock'?

[Gazwould]

Yes , heard this problem with others .

Vag are not consistent , they're doing a better job on some
engines than others , effectively your car is a guinea pig .

[Motorway]

Thanks all for the replies so far, if the engine has been retarded to reduce the Nox, then am i likely to notice a reduction in power, i have only driven 150 local miles since the service and recall. for the last week i have been driving my Landrover discovery so the passat has been just used locally. but have a holiday towing caravan later this month so a reduction in power would be noticed then. the knock is noticable at 55mph in 6th gear which is my average towing speed, is the knocking likely to cause some wear?. especially with the extra load of towing for 8 hours at motorway speeds. or am i better off taking car back to VW and get them to alter the settings?. if they will or can?

thanks again for your input

[Alltrack]

The B7 Passat 2.0 TDI has the EA189 engine that was fitted with an 'acoustic device'.

This 'acoustic device' was originally developed by Audi for the 3.0 V6 diesel engine. They realised that they could get rid of the characteristic diesel clatter by injecting a bit more fuel into the engine upon ignition. The trouble was that this increased emissions considerably. This was then used with the 'defeat device' to identify testing scenarios. VW then adopted this 'acoustic device' on to the EA189 engine. Obviously new models (B8) do not have this.

A friend of mine had his 2014 Tiguan 2.0 TDI modified as part of the VW emissions recall. He is not happy at all as he thinks the diesel clatter has increased enormously. It seems the modification on the 2.0 TDI EA189 is just a software update, presumably where this 'acoustic device' is removed.

I actually took him for a drive in my B8 2.0 TDI and he noticed the same clatter noise on my engine. Personally I don't see it as an issue as I had a Mondeo 2.0TDCI prior and it made a similar engine noise (clatter) to my B8.

On another VW forum a user was complaining about the extra clatter that the 2.0 TDI in the B8 makes compared to his B7.

[UMEL]

The mod is not compulsory so I am coming to the conclusion that I will not have my car altered. I like it the way it is.

[cruise control]

Hello guys.
i wish i had read this post last week... had my passat serviced this week and had the emissions recall done at the same time. i thought it was good for resale if the recall had been done, the dealer assured me that all of the early problems with the software had been ironed out, so i agreed to it..... big mistake...

firstly i have the increased clattering noise which as Motorway said i the initial post seems to be from the top end of the engine (Tappets) at approx 1200rpm in any gear, although once you get into 5th road noise masks the clattering. also power seems a little down in the lower rev range, we have a hill near home that normally i can go up in 5th at 42-44mph. since the recall i have to change down to 4th to keep up 42mph. MPG does not seem to be affected.

as Motorway mentioned i am a little worried about engine wear whilst the clattering is happening, i too tow a caravan and we are heading to spain in 10days time as motorway said towing at 55-60mph in 6th gear is within the rpm range where the clattering occurs. we have 3000 miles of towing during the holiday so dont want any problems.

what would be the best outcome for me would be if the dealer could return the software to pre-recall version. does anyone know if this is possible and if so would the dealers be willing to carry this ot for me. any help is very much appreciated.

[Gazwould]

It is not possible to return to factory map , they won't do it .

You tow , remap it .

[Motorway]

Hi all.
an update on the problem... i have beenemailing various dealers over the last week to see if any are prepared to revert the ECU Mapping to the original factory map. the first couple i mailed said they would need the car for 2 days to investigate what has gone wrong then rectify. but this afternoon i have had a reply back from one dealer asking me to book the car in and they will revert the map back to the original settings. they have said it is only a 10 minute job so i can wait. so i will book in tomorrow for their soonest booking.

earlier this evening i have been talking to a friend who has taken his car to a dealer today for the map to be reverted... he waited for them to do the job. but there was a problem the ECU refused to accept the original map, so they attempted to re-apply the updated software on the basis... maybe something did not go well when the dealer serviced it. the ECU refused to accept that mapping too. the outcome was the dealer has got to call VW at head office Milton Keynes tomorrow for advice on the next step.. talking to the engineer my friend was told (off the record) that when the software was beeing trialed at Head office the first 4 cars it was applied to the new software fried the ECU, so a new one was needed.

this got me thinking has similar happened to my friends car and that is the reason that it will not accept any new updates, he also confirmed that there is a fuel shortage at the low end (1200-1500rpm) causing valve rattle. also he admitted that the CO2 level with the new Map was considerably higher than with the original factory map. so reducing the Nox emission has increased the CO2???. i would be interested to see what the new CO2 level is. the engineer said they have done quite a lot of cars applying the original factory map. his last comment was he would not really advise anyone to have the recall done..

so looks like it can be done and we have 2 dealers that are willing to do this, i will add more updates when i have had the work done, i am hoping that i dont have the ECU problem that my friend has because we are going on holiday and dont fancy 2000 plus miles knowing there is a problem.

[UMEL]

Very interesting data. I emailed my supplier/dealer and asked if any updates had been done and the results...needless to say he replied but dodged the question. Just said my car had not yet been called.

[martin1810]

If anyone remaps an engine ECU in an attempt to reduce NOx emissions, other parameters will change, CO2 may increase, particulates may increase, fuel consumption may increase. That is why they fiddled results in the first place. VAG feel they must recall the cars but owners don't have to have the work done. The engines currently confirm to British test standards so they are fine as they are.

[NOSNI]

Had my 2.0 TDI updated a couple of weeks ago whilst it was in for service .No problems ,just as efficient as before.

[cruise control]

I took my car to a dealer who i had been emailing regarding getting my ECU map put back to the factory settings. they assured me that it could be done and would only take 20 mins. at first a technician took the car on road test and came back and reported he could not hear any rattle from the engine nor did he notice a shortage of power. but he was only away 5 mins and watching the video from the in car CCTV he drove at the wrong speed to hear the noise and also had the air con and radio on too. also he would not know how the car drove power wise before the recall, i have driven the car 5 years and the change after recall is quite noticable.

they agreed to do the factory settings re-map and took it into the workshop and plugged it in, after an hour the manager came to me and told me there was problems getting the ECU to accept the map. so he said they had also tried to re run the new mapping just in case of problems when it was done with my last service, they said that the ECU would not let them do that either. so now they want to investigate!!. how ever long that will take i have no idea. but i told the manager i was not happy and that i would be contacting VW customer service with a full report. i have done this and now await a reply. i have also encouraged 6 other friends with similar faults to do the same.

i got an email from the dealer yesterday saying thet VW were looking for a fix and that they had spoken to tech services and they have told the dealer that putting the car back to factory MAP is not happening!!!. they will not allow it. so they now plan to correct the problems with tweaks to the mapping, now if the ECU is not allowing modifications how will they do that?. it looks to me that the map that was done to fix the "emissions" done damage to the ECU maybe?.

my neighbour is a solicitor and i spoke with him last night and he says as the law stands as i own the car i have control of it to an extent as long as what i do to it or get done to it does not contravein any road trafic laws then i will not have any legal issues. he also said i would have a case on these bounds to get the factory setting put back or get monitary compensation to cover costs in getting an independant mapper to cure the problems. but it would take time and cost money, but if i won then costs would be refunded to me. so that is always an option... i may just use this information in my next communication to the dealer and see if it helps. i dont think the dealer has spoken to tech services, i think the technician who road tested the car told the manager there is NO problem with the car and the rest is excuses.. time will tell i will update as things progress.

[Gazwould]

Forget this lot at VW .

https://willmckinley.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/the-muppets.jpg

For £200 a generic remap will give you a better driving car than the stock map .

Remap and enjoy life .

[Motorway]

Forget this lot at VW .

https://willmckinley.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/the-muppets.jpg

For £200 a generic remap will give you a better driving car than the stock map .

Remap and enjoy life .

i took the car to the dealer on friday, they booked it in for the mapping to be reverted to the factory settings as agreed. after an hour waiting for the car one of the engineers came to me and told me they were having problems. he said the ECU is not letting them make any changes they had tried the original factory map, then tried to re-run the emissions fix to make sure no issues with what was already there. he said could i leave the car with him. i left the car and one of the sales team give me a lift home. they had the car over the weekend and all day yesterday, i got an email from the dealer 3pm yesterday saying they had not ben able to do either the factory map or even replace the emissions fix mapping. they have spoken to VW head office and they are looking for a fix. but if the ECU is the problem then sounds expensive £600 plus££££

reading technical pages over the weekend and i noticed a page that gave a reasonable write up on the mapping process in general not just for VW but all cars. the first step was to put the car battery on charge to maintain a stable voltage, the guy doing the write up said that the voltage could drop during the mapping and cause errors and even in some cases cause the ECU to lock and not complete the operation or even make the car undrivable. now whilst i was watching them at the dealer on friday from the MOT viewing area. they had my car in the workshop engine off and hazard flashers gong all the time they had it plugged in to the computer, surely the pulsating of the hazard flashers would be the same as a voltage drop?. if the dealer who did the emissions recall did the same thing then we may have found the problem. looks like my ecu and possibly many more could be locked and not able to accept any further updates. cruise control mentioned in his post that his ecu was not accepting codes.

Gazwould... you mention ditching the cartoon characters, and getting the generic map done, not had any dealings with re-mapping before who do you recomend. this sounds like a plan but if the dealers are telling the truth and they cannot get code into the ecu then is it not true to say that any mapping company will have the same issues?. or will they have some sofware to unlock it with?. i have emailed VW customer services 3 times since last week and as yet no reply, but if i have to spend money to fix their problem then i may make a case of it for some compensation.

[Gazwould]

There's plenty remappers local to you , best get a personal recommendation from a member here .

If they can't remap it , you don't pay .

[cruise control]

Voltage drop.... that is an interesting one Motorway... i read your post this morning and i dug out the video files from the dashcam for the day that the service and emissions recall was done, and from the footage the Hazzards were flashing the whole time the mapping was done. the battery for the dashcam was not charging at the time so the engine was not running and i could assume No battery charger was attached to the car. so maybe this is where it all went wrong?. is it also possible that getting the ecu locked in this way has made it impossible to reprogram by anyone.

i would be interested to talk to a re-mapping specialist, if anyone can recomend one in north staffordshire i would appreciate it and see what they say whilst i am waiting for VW customer service to answer my daily emails.

[SGN]

Our 2011 Passat Estate 2.0tdi 140 Bluemotion was in for service the other day. it was only an oil service and pollen filter change. i had also got the letter inviting me to have the emissions recall done.

before the car went in it was running great with no issues, and i did wonder if it was worth having the emissions recall work done. but the dealer assured me all the bugs had been sorted out and i should see no difference to the car. initially i did not economy did seem to be OK, about the same on local miles. not done a long run yet so cannot comment on that yet. however the engine did sound different straight away as soon as i drove out of the dealers. it was a hot day and aircon was running, the difference was a deeper exhaust note, similar to when the DPF is in re-gen mode, but without the increase in engine speed and cooling fan.

now the weather has cooled to the normal british summer temps aircon is not running as much and another noise has been noticed, it sounds like tappet noise. when you change gear in accordance with the shift change light the revs drop to approx 1200rpm you hear this tappety noice until the revs pick up to 1500approx. this noise is most noticable in town driving when you change from 3rd to 4th with a road speed of 30mph engine speed is just below 1200rpm and with light throttle the tappety noise is constant. with more throttle even at the same speed, i.e pulling uphil the noise goes away.

i have checked oil levels all OK and remover oil filler and plenty of oil is reaching top of the engine, i have also checked drive belt tension just in case the belt was slapping at this low speed (had this on a Landrover discovery).

as the service was just Oil filter and pollen filter there is nothing that the service routine could have done to make this change. the tappety noise was not there before the service. so i can only assume that the emissions recall (software update) must have caused this. does any of the knowledgable people know exactly what is adjusted on this software upgrade. my opiniion is there is some change in injection timing or valve timing or a combination of both to cause this noise. i could do with a bit more information before i go back with the car to the dealer.

any comments / help would be most appreciated

I could have written your post almost word for word for you.
I have exactly the same problem since the update, (2011 Golf 2.0 Gt TDI ) mine was done 2 weeks ago, as soon as I drove away I noticed the rattle and different driving characteristics, it was too late for me to go back they were closing as I left. I've lived with it for two weeks and it's really getting on my nerves, having to change down to stop it jerking, trying to keep revs up to stop the rattling.
Enough is enough.
I'll be on the phone at 1st thing tomorrow.

Cheers

[UMEL]

My engine runs a dream now so on my future services I will tape notes in my engine bay and cabin, signed by the service manager...PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL THE EMISSIONS SOFTWARE PATCH. It is not compulsory and I choose not to have it done.

[The Accountant]

Hello all
shame i did not read here before my last service 3 weeks ago. my passat was serviced and the emissions recall done at the same time. i did not notice the same day... as it was a warm day and the aircon was working hard to keep the car cool. but the following morning i did notice the rattle / clatter from the engine. like others have said the DPF seems to be re-generating itself every 150 miles MAX. but this is giving me an oportunity to do research. when the dpf regenerates as most of you here will know the engine speed increases to approx 950rpm at idle. not sure of the tech on this but whilst the re-gen is happening the rattle / clatter from the engine stops??. so exactly as Motorway has experienced. i will be back at the dealer tomorrow..

[rowdy-999]

Hello all
shame i did not read here before my last service 3 weeks ago. my passat was serviced and the emissions recall done at the same time. i did not notice the same day... as it was a warm day and the aircon was working hard to keep the car cool. but the following morning i did notice the rattle / clatter from the engine. like others have said the DPF seems to be re-generating itself every 150 miles MAX. but this is giving me an oportunity to do research. when the dpf regenerates as most of you here will know the engine speed increases to approx 950rpm at idle. not sure of the tech on this but whilst the re-gen is happening the rattle / clatter from the engine stops??. so exactly as Motorway has experienced. i will be back at the dealer tomorrow..

If I'm not mistaken, during DPF regen the engine runs 'richer'. I suspect either that or the higher revs counters the clatter.

[Europa25]

As soon as this first hit the headlines, My immediate thought was - The engine has been designed and optimised to work in a specific way - any change is going to affect it.
Injector and ECU problems came to mind - are we going to see injector failures popping up next ?
I would like to see VW give an additional 2 year guarantee on any injector / ECU failure before I get mine done - and the option to revert if the car is affected or compensate.

Considering the lengths they have gone to in the USA , the offer for a 'free' upgrade / downgrade to this problem is mealymouthed.

I received my letter virtually guaranteeing absolutely no change to the engine whatsoever, stating that due to 'advances in technology' this is now achieveable.
I like the way they co-write the letter with the Driver and Vehicles standards Agency.

I'm very reluctant to see mine go in - in the same way I don't upgrade to new IOS on phones / PC's when problems arise!

My 2011 2.0 is silky smooth, sounds just like our TSi, and really quiet. We have an expensive new BMW and Audi in the street which sound awful in comparison.

I easily achieve 60+ MPG too, torque is still good 5 years on.

I'm going to ignore the letter for now - I want these problems ironed out, and a guarantee against injector / ECU failure issued too.

It's not good enough for a gigantic multi-billion £/€/$ company to say '2 of our engineers screwed up' , the CEO clears off and everyone is left to pick up or pay for the mess.

I thought it was too soon for a development, and a huge explanation is due and better reassurance.
It seems like damage limitation on the cheap via a politely worded letter.

I feel for you guys who cannot enjoy what is usually a great car, as much after this further added insult.
Keep taking your cars back until they get it right.

I had mine valued at the time of the 'scandal' , and if they really mess things up, they can buy it back.

I'm loathed to get rid of it, the B7 is a fantastic vehicle, spacious, quiet, economical, great to drive in all situations.
I'm sad that VW messed up big time over this issue, and have caused so much ongoing anxiety for owners of these vehicles.

An apology and a little tinker under the bonnet is not good enough. Safety is absolutely paramount, pleasure of owning one too - and the fact they have had 20-30k plus servicing costs of our hard earned money for a 'sold as' premium decent and safe product, then smacks the owners in the face with this situation looks terrible on the face of it.
VW, you should know a whole lot better, given the image you portray and the increasingly luxury marque you wish to claim.

[UMEL]

I received my recall letter today from Alison Jones, Director of Volkswagon.

She says, I can confirm that there will be no change to your vehicle's engine performance, maximum torque or noise levels.

Pinking surely must be classed as a noise.​

[luminfox]

I complained to my local VW dealer about the top end engine rattle on my 2015 DSG Tiguan which only started after the the emission recall. They asked me leave the car while they checked various settings. A technician road tested the car and reported to the Service Manager that he did not notice any rattle.
I am not surprised because the rattle on my car only occurs at certain times, and through experience over recent weeks I am able to re-create these conditions.
For example from a standing start the car reaches 30 mph and the automatic gearbox has already changed up to 4th gear.
This is when the rattle occurs. Worse if I start on an incline with the engine under more load
When I returned to pick up the car from the dealer I was told to try filling up with Shell V Power fuel (£1.22/Litre) and report back to them. The Shell fuel has made no difference to the rattle so I will be taking the car in again next week, in particular to tell them that only using expensive fuel cannot be a solution.

[The Accountant]

Hello all
shame i did not read here before my last service 3 weeks ago. my passat was serviced and the emissions recall done at the same time. i did not notice the same day... as it was a warm day and the aircon was working hard to keep the car cool. but the following morning i did notice the rattle / clatter from the engine. like others have said the DPF seems to be re-generating itself every 150 miles MAX. but this is giving me an oportunity to do research. when the dpf regenerates as most of you here will know the engine speed increases to approx 950rpm at idle. not sure of the tech on this but whilst the re-gen is happening the rattle / clatter from the engine stops??. so exactly as Motorway has experienced. i will be back at the dealer tomorrow..

UPDATE TO MY EARLIER POST:-
went back to the dealer and they aske me to book the car in for half a day. i got a call from the engineer during the morning and he asked me what noise was he listening for. i described it to him only for him to call back half hour later saying he could not hear any noise... well i said i am not imagining it and certainly not imagining the amount of regeneration the dpf is doing. they called me at lunch to say car was OK to collect.

when i collected i asked for the service manager, he was / or seemed quite helpful he came out with me on a test drive and i simulated the noise for him. he did hear it and then got an engineer to take the car ito the workshop. they pugged it in to the laptop and the engineer came back and sid there was NO error codes. they said they would re run the new emissions software just in case of any problems, i asked about getting the original software put back. they said they could not do that. they said take the car drive it and report back. they suggested not using supermarket fuels. i dont anyway i always use ESSO whis has been fine for 5 years prior to the recall.

this i did and there is absolutly no difference..

i did however receive a disturbing email from a customer, he has a passat with the same engine as mine, whilst driving home last monday he heard the rattle from the engine as he had done since the recall 2500 miles ago. driving in heavy trafic 50mph he said after 40 miles the noise got progressivly louder. at the same time the temperature guage rose steadily from the usual 90c then he heard a bump from under the bonnet. and an instant loss of power. he coasted onto the hard shoulder, opened the bonnet and saw oil and water everywhere and the oil cap was off.

he had the car towed to an independant garage who investigated to find all valves badly burnt valve seats damaged most of the valves seized in their guides. the timing belt had snapped but only as a result of the top end siezure. the timing belt was done at the service. the garage said he had seen quite a few VW and Audi with the same failure all around 2000-3000 miles after recall. he said it is some error in the ECU map that is supposed to cure the NOX emissions. if he repairs the car he suggested a generic map more suited to the car.

the worrying part is i have done 2100 miles since recall an i driving on borrowed time?.:zx11:

[rowdy-999]

I love the way the dealers don't really know what to do (or a least they that's what they say) and blame supermarket fuel!

[Gazwould]

Totally crazy , scandal upon scandal .

These muppets need to be invoiced for someone else to put a stock map back on .

[The Accountant]

Totally crazy , scandal upon scandal .

These muppets need to be invoiced for someone else to put a stock map back on .

I could not agree more... but when it takes 5 weeks of daily emailing to VW customer service before you get a reply just asking you to confirm information that is in your original email...!!! then getting money out of them is going to take a lifetime.... i may die waiting.

maybe someone can recomend somone who has equipment to do this Stock re-map and have a group buy for all affected owners. then get a solicitor on to the case to claim the whole lot?. if any one can help i know of 6 other owners from my close family and friends network. who would possibly be interested.

[Gazwould]

They do not put the original software back on , you tow a caravan - remap it .

[cruise control]

Accountant... like the idea of a remap group buy, although i disagree with having to pay to get VW's mistakes corrected. so the idea of getting some sort of legal aid would be attractive. maybe if enough owners get on board with this it may prompt VW to do something. having never getting involved in re-mapping and so many reports of problems after bad remaps i am a bit at a loss of who to use so again recomendations from anyone in the know would be appreciated i am sure all would agree. i know of about 9 others who would benefit from a good remap. judging by the time taken to get a reply from VW it took them 6 weeks to reply to me, they know of the problem but dont have the staff to cope with the scale of their cockup.

[Gazwould]

A remap is so much more than a fix .

As for a bad one , most have the policy of back to standard if not satisfied as they first copy your actual map first .

With VW you get the garden path .

[The Accountant]

I could not agree more... but when it takes 5 weeks of daily emailing to VW customer service before you get a reply just asking you to confirm information that is in your original email...!!! then getting money out of them is going to take a lifetime.... i may die waiting.

maybe someone can recomend somone who has equipment to do this Stock re-map and have a group buy for all affected owners. then get a solicitor on to the case to claim the whole lot?. if any one can help i know of 6 other owners from my close family and friends network. who would possibly be interested.

Since my last post there has been a sad development. my sisters Passat has suffered some sort of failure in the top end of the engine. she was driving home thursday evening on the busy M6 at rush hour when a sudden metalic clunk from the engine then total loss of power, fortunatly she was able to roll onto the hard shoulder and she had the car recovered to her home. there is a mobile mechanic in her street and he is currently taking a look. she has had enough of the VW dealers fobbing her off. so we will see what the outcome is. lets hope something simple?. or is that optamistic?.

[cruise control]

Since my last post there has been a sad development. my sisters Passat has suffered some sort of failure in the top end of the engine. she was driving home thursday evening on the busy M6 at rush hour when a sudden metalic clunk from the engine then total loss of power, fortunatly she was able to roll onto the hard shoulder and she had the car recovered to her home. there is a mobile mechanic in her street and he is currently taking a look. she has had enough of the VW dealers fobbing her off. so we will see what the outcome is. lets hope something simple?. or is that optamistic?.


Had a long chat last thursday with VW customer service regarding the problems caused by the new software, they first told me that the software had been rigerously tested by engineers at the factory and endorsed by 3 organisations 1 in germany one in the UK and the other in spain. they did give me chance to voice my opinion and describe the faults, they then said that the new software did NOT change any settings relating to emissions, they said the new software just makes it easy to detect the NOX emissions when on test. i challenged them about the rattling noise so many owners have reported to us. all they could say was best to take the car in for investigation work? at the end of the conversation we still had differences of opinion and i emailed them further comments.

to prove a point at the weekend i took the ECU from a friends identical car (without the new software) and put it into my car, all problems that the Emissions update / downgrade went away. so to prove further we inserted my ECU into my friends car.... his car displayed issues identical to what i had. we left both ECU's in place until today when we reviewed results, and the results confirmed our initial thoughts. i have emailed our findings to VW, i have also phoned customer service this afternoon, managed to talk with the same advisor. at first he denied that ECU's were interchangable. then once he got the message he was not talking to an idiot he had to agree. but he still denied there was any problems with the software.

has anyone had dealings witha remap company called Quantum remap?. if i have to pay to get this problem solved then i would rather do that than have problems like "Accountants" sister had whith her car.

[UMEL]

Contact Quantum, explain the situation and ask if they would upload the data from your friends ECU and then load it onto your ECU.

[Gazwould]

What a fiasco .

[The Accountant]

Had a long chat last thursday with VW customer service regarding the problems caused by the new software, they first told me that the software had been rigerously tested by engineers at the factory and endorsed by 3 organisations 1 in germany one in the UK and the other in spain. they did give me chance to voice my opinion and describe the faults, they then said that the new software did NOT change any settings relating to emissions, they said the new software just makes it easy to detect the NOX emissions when on test. i challenged them about the rattling noise so many owners have reported to us. all they could say was best to take the car in for investigation work? at the end of the conversation we still had differences of opinion and i emailed them further comments.

to prove a point at the weekend i took the ECU from a friends identical car (without the new software) and put it into my car, all problems that the Emissions update / downgrade went away. so to prove further we inserted my ECU into my friends car.... his car displayed issues identical to what i had. we left both ECU's in place until today when we reviewed results, and the results confirmed our initial thoughts. i have emailed our findings to VW, i have also phoned customer service this afternoon, managed to talk with the same advisor. at first he denied that ECU's were interchangable. then once he got the message he was not talking to an idiot he had to agree. but he still denied there was any problems with the software.

has anyone had dealings witha remap company called Quantum remap?. if i have to pay to get this problem solved then i would rather do that than have problems like "Accountants" sister had whith her car.

Had an odd one today... i sent my weekly email to VW customer services just before i left to take my son to the airport, just got home and checked emails and there was an automated reply from VCA Enquiries with the same VW reference number. it basically read one of our assistants will be in touch shortly.

I understand that VCA is the government dept that deals with type approval, so do i assume that there is a problem with the type approval for the upgrade software?. or could it be that so many people are having the same problem that VCA have stepped in. i will have to just wait i suppose and see what questions they come back with. i will update as soon as i know somthing..

[UMEL]

The workers are paying with their jobs.

Volkswagen plans 30,000 job cuts worldwide - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38023933)

[Steven715]

Hello there, I have been finding this thread very interesting so first off I would like to thank everyone that contributed.

I have been sent 3 letters from VW/DVLA inviting me to have my recall done.
I am leaning towards not having it done as I am happy with the way the car performs and MPG that I'm receiving. I am also worried by the noise others have described and this will be the sort of thing that would annoy me.
Has anyone contacted VW and told them that you don't want the recall done? If so did they put up much of a fight?

Many thanks for your opinions on this matter.

Steve.


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[UMEL]

It is not compulsory so you do not need to contact anyone.

When and if you have your vehicle serviced, ensure you inform the servicing dealer, in writing, that you do not want it done. Also include a copy of the letter taped to the vehicles steering wheel when you drop it off. Ask the service manager to sign that copy.

All this said, I posted this problem on another Forum (non vehicular) and one Audi driver and one Skoda driver replied stating they had had the patch done with NO difference to the vehicles engine sound or performance.

PS, I am not having my Passat patched.


Hello there, I have been finding this thread very interesting so first off I would like to thank everyone that contributed.

I have been sent 3 letters from VW/DVLA inviting me to have my recall done.
I am leaning towards not having it done as I am happy with the way the car performs and MPG that I'm receiving. I am also worried by the noise others have described and this will be the sort of thing that would annoy me.
Has anyone contacted VW and told them that you don't want the recall done? If so did they put up much of a fight?

Many thanks for your opinions on this matter.

Steve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steven715]

It is not compulsory so you do not need to contact anyone.

When and if you have your vehicle serviced, ensure you inform the servicing dealer, in writing, that you do not want it done. Also include a copy of the letter taped to the vehicles steering wheel when you drop it off. Ask the service manager to sign that copy.

All this said, I posted this problem on another Forum (non vehicular) and one Audi driver and one Skoda driver replied stating they had had the patch done with NO difference to the vehicles engine sound or performance.

PS, I am not having my Passat patched.

Thank you UMEL, This has given me plenty to think about.
Its good to hear that other people are planning on doing the same thing. I would have the patch done if VW can satisfy my that no changes will be made to the drivability of the car and MPG, for the moment though I don't feel satisfied.

Cheers.


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[Europa25]

The more I hear, the more reluctant I am to let them get their hands on my car and possibly make it unsafe / lose value / become a dire driving experience.

VW have already lied - and the initial denial was absolutely ridiculous.

I have had Passats for 8 years and generally pleased with them. Quiet, spacious, economical, comfortable and power when you need it, great to drive.

It's very telling, that if the ECU is swapped for a pre-downgrade ECU the problems go away.

They're playing with fire over this issue - IF the 'upgrade' (which it is not) is 100% effective - then Why not give a two year guarantee on component failure related to it ?

People are getting wise to company tactics these days, thank goodness for information technology to let us make an informed choice.

Now it looks as though VW are misbehaving again, bu forcing their employees to be intransigent in the face of criticism.
The employees had better be careful - not only can you sue VW if they lie to you, you can sue the employee too - so although they are probably being forced to tow the company line on this to preserve the ego of their management - we are talking about peoples lives here, if the patching causes a catastrophic failure at high speed....

This is an article from Honest John, detailing failures on 2.0 Tiguans and the shocking denials by VW dealers - it is eye opening reading -

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/8-reports-of-volkswagen-tiguans-losing-power-after-ea189-emissions-fix/

[Gazwould]

" We think the software remap reduces the fuelling so we have recommended owners to try their engines on higher cetane 'superdiesel' such as Shell V-Power Nitro Plus or BP Ultimate that generally gives more torque at low rpm and might help"

And the cetane numbers and difference for supermarket diesel and 'superdiesel' Shell and BP is.....?

[UMEL]

Another recall letter today stating over 565,000 vehicles have now been patched. All running with no negative impact on engine performance, torque, fuel consumption, NOISE and CO2 emissions.

If you guys who have more engine noise did not get this letter perhaps you should request it. It has a publication number 0101\0043119\C042852\J107155_C01_R01_S01

[jamjar]

Hi, I have spoken with a VW tech and the rattle on the Tiguan is a known issue VW have issued an updated remap to try and resolve so it may be worth mentioning to your dealer.

My passat now has a judder at low rpm in 6th gear since the update, I've had 3 injectors replaced so far and this has not resolved the issue, It is back in with the dealer today hopefully having the 4th injector replaced. the engineer told me if that doesn't resolve it then that is the way the car drives now and I wouldn't notice it if I adopted a different driving style!!!!!!!

I will be contacting VW to complain as the update has been detrimental to the performance of the car.

The engineer told me that one other customer has had the same problem and decided to live with it......... Crazy





I complained to my local VW dealer about the top end engine rattle on my 2015 DSG Tiguan which only started after the the emission recall. They asked me leave the car while they checked various settings. A technician road tested the car and reported to the Service Manager that he did not notice any rattle.
I am not surprised because the rattle on my car only occurs at certain times, and through experience over recent weeks I am able to re-create these conditions.
For example from a standing start the car reaches 30 mph and the automatic gearbox has already changed up to 4th gear.
This is when the rattle occurs. Worse if I start on an incline with the engine under more load
When I returned to pick up the car from the dealer I was told to try filling up with Shell V Power fuel (£1.22/Litre) and report back to them. The Shell fuel has made no difference to the rattle so I will be taking the car in again next week, in particular to tell them that only using expensive fuel cannot be a solution.

[alex1690]

Hi to all :Blush:
i'm from Audi Q3 forum Italy and we're start talking about rattle issue after updating dieselgate sw.
A owner of 2.0 TDI 140CV have tried to remap ecu after update, all ok for increase power but rattle still there.
A start point maybe engine sw ("engine module" in vag com software) before and after update...
32350
My sw version before was 4309, after 9977 engine TDI 2.0 140cv
This sw don't change if you remap ecu for increase power, but control engine and use of injector.
I read about owner of TDI 1.6 of Polo or A1 that have many sw update by service before solving engine problem ( injector malfuction, rattling, low rev engine power)

I think new engine sw cause rattling (that goes away during fap regeneration)

Can you post your sw version please? So we can compare and try to solve problem in someway :o

p.s. Sorry for my funny english :p

[UMEL]

UK VW owners seek compensation over emissions scandal - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38552828)

Trial in 18 months :confused:

What if someone has sold their vehicle on. How do they stand.

[Arragonis]

I thought about joining the action when I heard about it - £3k if they succeed and no cost if they don't is a winner ? Except they don't handle owners in Scotland - not sure why. Thanks Nicola!

My servicing is done by a local specialist, only chosen because they are local to where I work - the local VW place has been fine for me with warranty work so far.

I've told the specialist I don't want the update done so it will not be on my car - I can forego the free VW key-ring, keep-warm coffee mug and top end rattle - thanks.

[Arragonis]

I've done a bit of an unofficial survey of different websites (VW, Audi, SEAT, Skoda and model specific ones) in relation to the fixes over the past week or so. From what I have seen (disclaimer, this is me on the internet and not an official survey) the pattern seems to be :

170/177 2.0s seem to be OK, no difference and no noise.
140 2.0s Seem to have more top end rattle reported, loss of power in some cases. DSG models seem to change down earlier than before when under load.
105 1.6s See to be the same as the 140s above in some cases plus less flexibility - e.g. "I need to change down a lot earlier" on hills.
The 140s and 105s also seem to report more emission "Regens" than before - e.g. Stop/Start suspended, higher idle speed, burning smell, cooling fans left running after engine stop.

Mine is a 105 so based on this I'm probably going to hold off for now at least. If issues continue I'll probably hold off forever with a letter in may car stating that if VW apply it then they are accepting my offer to buy my car at the list price of an equivalent 2017 model.

[UMEL]

Interesting.

Even though I have a 177 I will not be having the patch done.

[The Accountant]

I've done a bit of an unofficial survey of different websites (VW, Audi, SEAT, Skoda and model specific ones) in relation to the fixes over the past week or so. From what I have seen (disclaimer, this is me on the internet and not an official survey) the pattern seems to be :

170/177 2.0s seem to be OK, no difference and no noise.
140 2.0s Seem to have more top end rattle reported, loss of power in some cases. DSG models seem to change down earlier than before when under load.
105 1.6s See to be the same as the 140s above in some cases plus less flexibility - e.g. "I need to change down a lot earlier" on hills.
The 140s and 105s also seem to report more emission "Regens" than before - e.g. Stop/Start suspended, higher idle speed, burning smell, cooling fans left running after engine stop.

Mine is a 105 so based on this I'm probably going to hold off for now at least. If issues continue I'll probably hold off forever with a letter in may car stating that if VW apply it then they are accepting my offer to buy my car at the list price of an equivalent 2017 model.


Some interesting DATA found on another forum i know it is from an Audi A5 but the 2.0tdi 140 not sure of the year it did not mention that 1drv.ms/b/s!AvcWk_HHJ7e2lSKCPGtHBV19b90L (http://1drv.ms/b/s%21AvcWk_HHJ7e2lSKCPGtHBV19b90L) makes interesting?. especiallly the bottom Graph

[UMEL]

The latest from the UK,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39032167

only 3500 complaints about the patch.

[UMEL]

The latest from the UK,

Volkswagen 'fixes 470,000 UK diesel cars' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39032167)

only 3500 complaints about the patch.

[Gazwould]

http://interfaxenergy.com/gasdaily/uploads/articles/1443446401.jpg

[Abduls Miezis]

The fact that the cheat software was in use itself makes it clear that you better dont fix it now, because why then they did use it in first place ?

[Steven715]

The fact that the cheat software was in use itself makes it clear that you better dont fix it now, because why then they did use it in first place ?

I totally agree and in my thinking how can a software update fix this, surly they could have done this in the first place.


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[Abduls Miezis]

As we can see from posted dynochart they are fixing it very simply - reducing the power (more significantly the torque) in rpm range where it matters to us the most. Simply you dont have low and mid rpm power you payd for when bought the car. And its also most likely putting more stress on DPF.

[BIGTONE]

Not had the top end knock on my 1600 Passat estate B7 Diesel since the recall 7 weeks ago, However, I have noticed the engine is running hotter,presumably to burn away more particulates and bring the emissions in line.My cooling fan is always kicking in,even on parking up. It never did this prior to recall.
My consumption has dived. 36MPG urban 43MPG on a run.
I was also told by my local VW dealer,that if I didn't get the modification,it would have a detrimental effect on the cost of my vehicle.

[Rob69]

I think the government is more likely to be having a detrimental effect on the value of your car than not getting it messed about with
Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39088631)

[zollaf]

be back to horse and cart soon then, and the sooner the better, then we can all stop bickering over whats going on and stop having wars to get the oil... cant wait..

[Gazwould]

As predicted a low down torque loss !

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/attachments/2017-02-25-12-22-39-png.118439/

[zollaf]

oh dont say that, now everyone will want some compensation.

[Rob69]

No - electric cars are going to save the day (and planet)
Until someone realises we aren't capable of building power stations anymore to charge them up with.

[zollaf]

charged by coal fired power stations or wood pellet fired which seems the latest craze, with pellets shipped in from america ???
theres really only one answer and thats a cull, cut the population down to a sensible level.

[Computool]

Our 2011 Passat Estate 2.0tdi 140 Bluemotion was in for service the other day. it was only an oil service and pollen filter change. i had also got the letter inviting me to have the emissions recall done.

before the car went in it was running great with no issues, and i did wonder if it was worth having the emissions recall work done. but the dealer assured me all the bugs had been sorted out and i should see no difference to the car. initially i did not economy did seem to be OK, about the same on local miles. not done a long run yet so cannot comment on that yet. however the engine did sound different straight away as soon as i drove out of the dealers. it was a hot day and aircon was running, the difference was a deeper exhaust note, similar to when the DPF is in re-gen mode, but without the increase in engine speed and cooling fan.

now the weather has cooled to the normal british summer temps aircon is not running as much and another noise has been noticed, it sounds like tappet noise. when you change gear in accordance with the shift change light the revs drop to approx 1200rpm you hear this tappety noice until the revs pick up to 1500approx. this noise is most noticable in town driving when you change from 3rd to 4th with a road speed of 30mph engine speed is just below 1200rpm and with light throttle the tappety noise is constant. with more throttle even at the same speed, i.e pulling uphil the noise goes away.

i have checked oil levels all OK and remover oil filler and plenty of oil is reaching top of the engine, i have also checked drive belt tension just in case the belt was slapping at this low speed (had this on a Landrover discovery).

as the service was just Oil filter and pollen filter there is nothing that the service routine could have done to make this change. the tappety noise was not there before the service. so i can only assume that the emissions recall (software update) must have caused this. does any of the knowledgable people know exactly what is adjusted on this software upgrade. my opiniion is there is some change in injection timing or valve timing or a combination of both to cause this noise. i could do with a bit more information before i go back with the car to the dealer.

any coments / help would be most appreciated
thanks

I was really pleased to find this thread, so much so that I registered on the forum, just to be able to reply.

We had the VW emission update on our 62 plate Tiguan, Blue Motion 140 2.0 TDI. Like you, we have experienced the tapping noise, in cold weather. Your description of the noise is identical, and the conditions under which it occurs are identical. A very accurate explanation.

I was fairly sure that it was linked to the ECU update by VW, and you have confirmed my suspicions. There must be others out their with the same problem, but maybe haven't made the link.

[Steven715]

Hello there everyone, just to let you know that VW have been on the ear hole Friday it was a phone call from I assume a call centre, Although I asked the chap on the phone to repeat himself what company he was representing I'm sorry but I couldn't understand him. He asked me if I had done anything about the "recall" I said no and that I don't intend to, he asked why and I simply told him that my research indicates that the update has an effect on performance, MPG, and a tapping noise and I don't want this to affect my car in this way. He responded by wanting to put me through to a dealer I said no that will be a waste of my time and there time as they as a company have lied to me once and why won't they do it again. He laughed at this statement I'm not sure if he was laughing at me or was embarrassed and it was his way of dealing with it, I then went on to say that I don't want to be put under pressure to get this done he said that they are not doing that, that I don't have to get it done if I don't want to I said well VW will be under pressure from the government to get as many cars fixed as possible and I assume that the government may fine VW for every car that doesn't get done. This conversation went on for about 10 minutes most of it was said again. I said VW simply need to satisfy me that the car will not change as once I have the car done there is no going back I said I'm happy with the car as it is and don't want to ruin it.

I hope I have written this out clearly I am a terrible writer. I just wanted to let people know who haven't had this done to be aware of what is to come.

Kind regards Steve.


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[UMEL]

I have had two letters from VW UK and one phone call from my local Skoda dealership (VW service centre) which I did not follow up.

Took my Skoda Yeti in for a warranty fix two weeks ago and after parking it in what I considered a safe spot it was reversed into by a guy driving an Isuzu. No damage was done but it transpires that Isuzu now occupy the premises as well and the driver was the MANAGER. He showed little remorse and was very aggresive when I questioned him about his driving ability.

[Gazwould]

No parking mode on the 402G ?

[UMEL]

No parking mode on the 402G ?

Maybe not but HIS reversing beepers were working...

It's mounted in my VW.

[yoyo]

hi I too have a strange ratley noise coming from my engine when driving after emission fix on my 1.6 golf tdi blue motion, bean like it for over a week now its just irritable more than anything and hard to explain but just as I accelerate its like a tinny ratley noise. ive owned my car for 4 years now and have never heard it before and most definitely starting making noise right after the fix until I could familiarize the sound here I am asking does any one else know the problem or if its to do with this airflow pipe

[Arragonis]

The details in posts above suggest this is what you would expect, but you are the first 1.6 I've seen complain about it, which is interesting.

[Europa25]

I've my MOT due within next 4 weeks.

Can I take the vehicle to any NON VW place without the fix with no problems ?

I'm determined not to let VW update it - the fact they call it an upgrade is a total insult.
Can you put off this fix indefinitely ?
Although my conscience does not want me to do so.

I got a letter from DVLA today, with a VW stamp on it - saying it's the 'final reminder' - an insult too.

VW ruined these vehicles with a massive lie.
They then tried to cover it up. "It was just 2 technicians"
They gave no compensation (up to £7,500 in USA), saying in the UK it would be inappropriate - why ?
VW "Does not accept that a defeat device prohibited under UK law was fitted to any of the affected UK vehicles" Really ? So why 'fix' it (badly) ?

The VW UK boss then appears for the third time in front of The Transport Select Commitee, saying 'nothing wrong has been done', 'the fixes have NO detrimental effect on the vehicle', and is only being done to 'put customers minds at rest' .
He is told he is giving an 'Alice in Wonderland type account' to the Transport Select Commitee.
He was accused in The House of Commons of telling and I quote, 'blatant lies'.

This is putting a previously successful,respected and even revered marque in a very poor light.

Constant reports of high engine temperatures, injector failures, high/unacceptable tapping engine noises, loss of torque and efficiency are being brushed under the carpet in a blaze of intransigence.
Customers are discerning, and not that stupid to be lied to in their faces !

I can't think of any car I would want to trade for .
I bought a Passat on the strengths of quiet engine, performance, efficiency and reliability - the 4 things this 'fix', - seem to kill with one 30 minute visit.
I do not want a chattery engine, higher fuel consumption, loss of performance on the motorway (crucial) or of course failure.

If the engine was designed to run with this software, then it would have been installed in the first place.
Clearly in increasing cases the two do not work together, and could lead to possible life endangering situations with sudden failure and loss of power at high speed.

If they were going to do this properly, they'd replace the engines. Logistically impossible I know.And clearly do not want to pay for anything.

It is interesting there is no petrol version in the new Passat lineup.

They need to come clean, stop insulting the people who built their success, 'fix' this properly - and soon.

[Arragonis]

MOT does not depend on these mods, so it should be fine.

[Europa25]

Thanks Arragonis, appreciate it. It won't be going to VW then ! Service due 3000 miles later, have to find someone else for that too !

[Arragonis]

Thanks Arragonis, appreciate it. It won't be going to VW then ! Service due 3000 miles later, have to find someone else for that too !

Find a local specialist and ask them to put in writing that they service to OEM standards. My local specialist spotted an oil leak in a turbo pipe of some kind and told me to go to the dealer to get a warranty fix - the local dealer honoured the warranty with no problems - if they were closer I would have been using them.

Now if only my local Skoda dealer was the same, they are total counts.

[Europa25]

I am no Daily Mail fan, but a search and AMP revealed that the software fiasco damaging cars made it in to mainstream press yesterday.

Lies, lies and more lies.

I've loved my journey with VW the last 9 years, but this has made me seriously reconsider who they are.
Intransigence and arrogance in the face of damaging expensive cars, making them unsafe, and devaluing them is an outrage.

About time they were bought up in front of The Transport Select Commitee and answer alot of questions, make some real promises and restore their reputation before it's destroyed forever.

I'm appalled by their sheer arrogance in the face of something so very serious.

I'm not visiting them for MOT or service for some time to come, hideous whitewash and lies.

[UMEL]

Email of yesterday from VW CS following my concerns about the patch...after a 3rd letter arrived.

Thank you for your recent email addressed to Alison Jones, Director of Volkswagen UK. Due to the nature of Alison’s role within the business it is not always possible for her to reply to each individual contact. Therefore she has asked that I respond on her behalf, please be assured no discourtesy is intended. Please accept my apologies for the delay in our response.

I am sorry if the formatting of our letters has caused any inconvenience to you. I can assure you this was not our intention and these letters were sent out solely for information purposes.

We recognise that we have fallen short of the standards expected of us, and we will take the necessary actions to regain consumer trust.

In response to your concerns regarding the technical measures, I would like to assure you that the German Federal Motor Transport Authority (the KBA) has performed independent tests of the implementation of the technical measures in the affected vehicles, to ensure that the measures have no adverse impact on performance. The implementation of the technical measures for your vehicle type was tested and approved by the KBA and they confirmed that the measures have no adverse impact on the MPG figures, CO2 emissions figures, engine output, and maximum torque and noise emissions of your vehicle type. I would also like to say that the relevant type approval authorities have confirmed that the implementation of the technical measures has no impact on the durability of the engine or the emissions after-treatment system.

It is not possible to provide specific test figures for individual customer vehicles. I am unable to provide you with the KBA’s test results, and I understand that the results are not publicly available, but you may be able to obtain further information by contacting them directly.

Further, you are not required to have the technical measures implemented in your vehicle. This is not a mandatory safety recall, but a voluntary service action. Your vehicle remains safe and roadworthy and has been approved by an independent approval authority, which means it is legally allowed to be driven on the roads. You are not, therefore, breaking the law by driving your vehicle. The technical measures will not, therefore, be implemented in your vehicle without your consent. That said, we would like the opportunity to implement the technical measures in your vehicle. We would recommend, therefore, that you have the technical measures implemented in your vehicle at your earliest convenience.

I hope this information proves useful. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us on the number below.

Finally, thank you for taking the time to contact us, I am sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.

Who is kidding who.

[jcdub]

I'll be rolling back the software fix via a remap. No more issues with the engine back running smoothly again

[UMEL]

Update,

VW 'to address diesel fix concerns but offer no compensation' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40280395)

[martin1810]

It might help if people only comment on one make, one model, one engine. The so called "cheat fix" does not seem to be the same for every make , model and engine. So the experience of a Passat owner may be different to a Golf owner, after the "fix". From what I have seen so far, the cheat fix is a removal of the obvious cheat section of the ECU as well as numerous changes to injection, injection timing and dpf function. The end result is that the cheat fix file is not really the same as the original file even though 90% of it is unchanged. This makes the remap option of a cheat fix file more of a problem. The mapper would be remapping the cheat fix file, not going back to the original file and mapping that. So make sure the company know what they are doing before you have a cheat fix car remapped. Other than the UK government suggesting that the cheat should be fixed, there is no real need for the fix in UK because the "cheat" engine meets all current UK legislation. So if you don't want the "fix, don't have it done. It is unlikely that the UK will ever introduce an emissions test that can tell a cheat fix car from a non cheat fix car, it would not be worth the expense.

[UMEL]

More dung

Audi manager arrested in emissions probe - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40533030)

[UMEL]

The first but not last.

VW engineer jailed for emissions scandal - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41053740)

Coincidentally a friend has a 2.0L diesel Skoda Yeti which had the patch done and they are having problems now with it and the dealer who already has a bad reputation. I have vowed not to take my Yeti there again following a number of problems with them from new.