Mapping the BiTDi

[blue62]

I am contemplating either an Avant or an A7 and got engaged in some pub talk last night with a guy claiming that the Bi turbo can be mapped to 380bhp. Has anyone on here tried this and if so I'd be interested to know their thoughts, ta.

[Whippy53]

There was a thread some time ago where a member had his done by a German outfit with excellent results. Bout sixteen months ago. Have a search and you may be able to find it.

[M1tchy]

The BiTDI doesn't need anymore power, it is pretty much unusable as it is (the power that is, not the car)


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[johnsimcox]

I am contemplating either an Avant or an A7 and got engaged in some pub talk last night with a guy claiming that the Bi turbo can be mapped to 380bhp. Has anyone on here tried this and if so I'd be interested to know their thoughts, ta.

In this thread New A6 Avant BiTdi coming end of April (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?156419-New-A6-Avant-BiTdi-coming-end-of-April) there is a discussion about taking a BiTDi to 377bhp. There is also a lot of silly name calling (so much so that Stuart stepped in) but if you ignore that you may find it of some use

[chesterfield]

The BiTDI doesn't need anymore power, it is pretty much unusable as it is (the power that is, not the car)

oops. :o

[Guest 2]

Remap + warranty = :(

When your car is plugged in and a software change has been made by someone who isn't Audi/VW etc it will be plagued by the TD1 code which will haunt the car forever and can't be removed.

[blue62]

Always a very pleasant forum, cheers. I thought the A6 and A7 boxes were identical, but will investigate, thanks for the heads. Regarding warranty, I've mapped two Audi's previously via the dealer, on both occasions APR, there was no mention of warranty problems and during ownership, no issues, but thanks for the warning.

[Guest 2]

Always a very pleasant forum, cheers. I thought the A6 and A7 boxes were identical, but will investigate, thanks for the heads. Regarding warranty, I've mapped two Audi's previously via the dealer, on both occasions APR, there was no mention of warranty problems and during ownership, no issues, but thanks for the warning.

TD1 is a relatively new thing (edc17 on I'm led to believe ie C7 A6s) so you take the risk!

[blue62]

I'm seriously thinking about an A7 now Jamie, how do you rate the steering feel? I am told there is a tuning company in Reading who are the only ones to trust (in the UK) with the BiTdi engine, though I gather the latest A7 will have 330bhp stock, which may just be enough :)

[Johnny31]

Also the A7 gearbox can take more torque than the A6 gearbox.
The 377 Bhp is within the A6 boxes capabilities.
There is a person here with an A7 at 400 + bhp with the same Bitdi engine as the A6. Mod was done in Holland at @ approx £1600

Errrr nope - A6 and A7 have the same gearbox/engine combos... Hence, the BiTdi comes with the same ZF in both body forms.

[M1tchy]

Errrr nope - A6 and A7 have the same gearbox/engine combos... Hence, the BiTdi comes with the same ZF in both body forms.


I detect handbags again.......


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[Johnny31]

I detect handbags again.......


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Hahaha... :)

[Johnny31]

Apparently not according to a few people who spoke about this previously. But I can get 100% clarification from a master tech next week.
Johnny please detail your info and source. Thanks

ElsaWin and ETKA are beautiful things my friend...

[Johnny31]

Good news then. I read back a while they where different. We know now that both the A7 & A6 can both handle the same amount of torque and BHP.
What are the model numbers for the boxes ? It would be good to drill down and find out more about their capabilities and limitations or possible modifications and overrides.

I'm sure the master tech will be able to give you all this info... ;)
As I'm stuck with my S-tronic which is almost bang-on on its torque limit with the 245PS engine, I'm afraid any further engine tuning (although options exist and companies like ABT have good solutions) is not on my to-do list...

[chesterfield]

What's ElsaWin and ETKA?

[Johnny31]

What's ElsaWin and ETKA?
in a nutshell, software containing all the details on your car (from part numbers to how it is bolted together... To my knowledge, the former exists only as a fat Windows version and you can find the later online (google it as posting the link to it might prod moderators to wrist-slap me :-D).

[ukgroucho]

in a nutshell, software containing all the details on your car (from part numbers to how it is bolted together... To my knowledge, the former exists only as a fat Windows version and you can find the later online (google it as posting the link to it might prod moderators to wrist-slap me :-D).

Yeah I'd really like to see clarification of this - and as you are standing up to say "all is equal between the A7 and A6 BiTDi gearboxes") it would be nice if you could help us all out with a bit more validation.

You need to understand that this is a question that has been floated here before - and without a satisfactory answer.
SO.. step up and supply some real world evidence to back what you are saying please!

[Johnny31]

Yeah I'd really like to see clarification of this - and as you are standing up to say "all is equal between the A7 and A6 BiTDi gearboxes") it would be nice if you could help us all out with a bit more validation.

You need to understand that this is a question that has been floated here before - and without a satisfactory answer.
SO.. step up and supply some real world evidence to back what you are saying please!

OK, here we go:
There are several "sub-variants" of the ZF gearbox in use on both A6 and A7. Cars produced in 2012 have for example:

0BK300037M
0BK300037MX
0BK300039D

What I initially provided were part numbers for the according mechatronic units... SORRY! :(
4G0 927 158

Again, this is general and valid for cars produced in 2012. For precise answers (e.g. what you actually have on your cars), get armed with VIN numbers and visit http://www.partscats.info/ - it should be self explanatory.
Will this do or I need to provide a full comparative analysis? :P

[Johnny31]

Last edited 10 days ago by an anonymous user
ZF 8HP transmission
ZF 8HP
Overview
Manufacturer ZF Friedrichshafen
Production 2008–
Body and chassis
Class 8-speed longitudinal automatic transmission
Chronology
Predecessor ZF 6HP


Automatic Transmission 8HP70
The ZF 8HP is an eight-speed automatic transmission, designed and built by ZF Friedrichshafen AG's subsidiary in Saarbrücken.[1] It had its debut in the new BMW 7 Series 760Li saloon fitted with the V12 engine and since then each new BMW model in all Series down to the 1 Series in rear wheel drive and all wheel drive version was equipped with it.


One of its main aims is to improve vehicle fuel economy, and it can achieve an 11% saving compared to ZF-6 speed transmission and 14% versus modern 5-speed transmissions.[2][3] Due to changes in internal design, shift times have reduced to 200 milliseconds, along with the ability to shift in a non-sequential manner - going from 8th to 2nd in extreme situations.[4] In the 8HP70 version, it has a torque handling limit of 700 newton metres (516 lbf·ft), and weighs 90 kilograms (198 lb).[5]


Future development will see two four-wheel drive versions available, with version destined for Volkswagen Group applications, using a Torsen centre differential.[5] It will be able to encompass a torque range from 300 newton metres (221 lbf·ft) to 1,000 newton metres (738 lbf·ft), and will be available for use in middle class cars, through to large luxury sport utility vehicles.[5]


Chrysler Group LLC initially received the 8HP 8-speed automatic transmissions from the ZF Getriebe GmbH plant in Saarbrücken, Germany. By 2013, in parallel with Chrysler Group, ZF has set up a new transmission production plant in North America, where the 8-speed transmissions will be produced.[6] ZF Friedrichshafen and Chrysler Group have reached a supply and license agreement for ZF's 8HP 8-speed automatic transmission. Chrysler Group is licensed to produce the 8HP at the company’s Kokomo Transmission Plant and the Kokomo Casting plant, starting in 2013.


Gear ratios
List of ZF 8HP variantsEdit


name max. gasoline torque (N·m) max. diesel torque (N·m) examples
8HP30 300 300 -
8HP45 (845RE by Chrysler)[7] 450 500 BMW 1 Series (F20), BMW 3 Series (F30), BMW 5 Series (F10), Chrysler 300 V6, Dodge Charger V6, RAM 1500 V6 (2013- )
8HP55 550 550 Audi A4 (B8), Audi A6 (C7), Audi A8 and A8L (D4)
8HP70 700 700 BMW 7 Series (F01), BMW X5 (E70), Dodge Durango V8, Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 & diesel, Range Rover Sport (2012), Maserati Quatroporte(2013-)
8HP90 900 1000 Rolls-Royce Ghost,[8] Bentley Mulsanne, Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat
Transmissions in blue are used by Chrysler.


Applications
Potential future vehicles to use it
See also
References
External links



8HP55 550 550 Audi A4 (B8), Audi A6 (C7), Audi A8 and A8L (D4)

BTW, this Wikipedia page seems to be slightly out of date. Furthermore, it might be a good idea to mention where you copy/pasted data from for the benefit of other forum members...

[chesterfield]

I'd like to know what torque the box in the RS6 is rated to, just for future reference :)

[Johnny31]

I'd like to know what torque the box in the RS6 is rated to, just for future reference :)

So, get your VIN, visit the site I provided, find out the exact model of your gearbox and let's take the research from there... :)

[chesterfield]

While ever I'm awaiting delivery of the car, it may prove difficult to obtain my vin number.. ;)

[Johnny31]

While ever I'm awaiting delivery of the car, it may prove difficult to obtain my vin number.. ;)
My bad... Still, you could supply over there the info on model, year, etc. & see what comes back.
Furthermore, you're lucky as across the pond, RS6 is very popular with tuners. Hence, there's loads of info on forums like Audizine and similar and many people will be happy to supply the info. Not many RS6s around here unfortunately which reflects on the available data.

[johnsimcox]

My bad... Still, you could supply over there the info on model, year, etc. & see what comes back.
Furthermore, you're lucky as across the pond, RS6 is very popular with tuners. Hence, there's loads of info on forums like Audizine and similar and many people will be happy to supply the info. Not many RS6s around here unfortunately which reflects on the available data.
Think it Chesterfield in the UK not US! The US do not get the RS6 (or any other A6 with the Avant body). The do get the RS7 though.

[Whippy53]

Anyone know how strictly Audi UK are monitoring the TD1 codes? Anyone over here fallen foul and lost their warranty?

[Johnny31]

Think it Chesterfield in the UK not US! The US do not get the RS6 (or any other A6 with the Avant body). The do get the RS7 though.
Actually, that is a mighty point: RS7, not RS6. Still worth 'comparing notes' though...

[fest0r]

Remap + warranty = :(

When your car is plugged in and a software change has been made by someone who isn't Audi/VW etc it will be plagued by the TD1 code which will haunt the car forever and can't be removed.


TD1 is a relatively new thing (edc17 on I'm led to believe ie C7 A6s) so you take the risk!


Anyone know how strictly Audi UK are monitoring the TD1 codes? Anyone over here fallen foul and lost their warranty?

So would using VCDS cause a TD1 code?

[Guest 2]

No as you're not flashing anything to the ECU, ie a remap.

[Johnny31]

Before anybody shoots me down (:() the part numbers I provided initially in one of the previous posts were for mechatronic units - sorry! Hence I edited the post ...

[Johnny31]

...and some further googling reveals that part number 0BK300037 has direct ZF replacements (http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/partscrossinterchange.html?search=0BK300037). Using this on the ZF site (interestingly, searching by the car type will not get you there), you could find some further info (see here https://webcat-services.zf.com/index.asp -> advanced search, use the part number as per above).
My only conclusion is (and I could be very wrong here) that AUDI just sorts the software out and depending on the specific car weight, etc. provides the parameters for the gearbox).
But then, that is just me, the keyboard warrior :), and I'd be surprised if reputable vendors didn't have all the right info (or I would give them nether my money nor my car to mess about with).

[Guest 2]

You'll probably find they won't be able to do VCDS tweaks as they don't use VCDS. Get someone local to do it from the map in my forum signature.