Air Suspension problem

[careless_adi]

Hi all,

I've had my 3.0 TDI for over a month now and I'm loving it! However, the air suspension has played up a little tonight.

When I test drove the car the air suspension was fine. It was on 'comfort' so I put it up to 'lift', down to 'dynamic', back up to 'lift' to test the cycle. It worked fine. I noticed a green dashboard indicated telling me when air was being pumped into the suspension.

After I bought the car I went to a horse show and had to drive over uneven terrain at the beginning of last month so put it to 'lift' and went up no problems. Again, I got the green 'pumping' light on the dashboard. Immediately after leaving said horse show I then set it to 'comfort' and have left it there since.

This evening, I drove to Gatwick and back (about 45 mile round trip), and when I pulled over to let my other half out of the car to pick up a takeaway in our home town, the orange air suspension light came on the dashboard. I hadn't fiddled with the suspension settings. So I turned the ignition off and back on and the light went away. The MMI showed that I'm still in 'comfort' mode.

When we got home I tried setting the suspension to 'lift' and I all I get, after a minute or two, is a greyed out air suspension settings in the MMI and the orange light on the dashboard. No green 'pumping' light on at all.

I don't want to set it to a lower setting in case I can't pump the suspension back up! I've driven the car for about 500 miles since buying it and not once has this happened before.

One thing to note - I had AMI fitted in the car 2 weeks(ish) ago, and had to update the MMI to 5570 to get it to work. The discs that were used were official Audi ones.

Any ideas? Would the software MMI update disrupt the functioning of the air suspension?

[gupsterg]

MMI update IMO wouldn't have caused the issue you describe.

Very common fault with the air suspension is that over time/use the air bags crack and as air leaks occur the pump over runs and fries. Usually owners hear the pump over running when this occurs, you don't state yours did, so can only assume it happened whilst you were away from your car or a different fault in the air suspension system has occurred like say a sensor/relay or a blown fuse :confused: .

Best course of action is to get a VCDS scan done, if you do not have it or access to it google for VWAF VCDS members map and contact closest ones to see if they are willing to scan it.

If you get a diags done at local garage get results/error codes and post info for more help from members on forum.

Perhaps another member will be along with better info or experience share.

[careless_adi]

Hi gupsterg,

I don't know where the air pump is on this car so I don't know where to listen out for it. I did hear it doing its thing when I first test drove the car as I was actively listening out for it, but yesterday I didn't think I could hear it at all. I'll try from the outside of the car though.
I will check if my local garage has VCDS, otherwise it'll be an VW/Audi specialist in the area.
It's not affecting the car at all though, from the outside the car looks like it's set to 'comfort', and doesn't looked slammed to the ground as if the air suspension is not inflated at all.

[gupsterg]

The way you describe it I think a fault on a part of the air suspension system is disabling it and compressor maybe fine?

Have view/get SSP's in this post Link:- A6 Allroad - Where is the Suspension Compressor? (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?146078-A6-Allroad-Where-is-the-Suspension-Compressor&p=810756#post810756)

Also get SSP292 adaptive air suspension in the Audi A8 (google for it) some handy info in that as well, AAS in the A6 is same tech principles as other models.

On this webpage, check lower links and they show location of relays, fuses etc Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A6 4F (2005- ) . Level Control J197 (http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_10221.html#1)

I read somewhere once that if jacking mode is enabled in MMI (CAR button menu then SETUP) selectable settings get disabled but then it's supposed to switch off automatically when you drive over a very low speed threshold.

Without a scan data sorry mate no more info I can give, hopefully someone else will be along with more advice.

[Audi Doctor]

Sometimes the compressor cuts out due to overheating,this can be caused simply by moving it about to much or their is also a common fault with the release valves in the suspension jamming.does the vehicle sit high at one wheel int?


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[careless_adi]

All of the wheels look the same height.

I don't think there's a leak otherwise (I'm assuming of course!) that at least one of the quarters would drop over night.

Driving along, no noticeable suspension or handling problems and no lights on the dashboard relating to the suspension... until I try and set it to 'Lift'.

I'm starting to suspect it's this problem (wishful thinking maybe?) Allroad Air Suspension Compressor strip & repair - Page 24 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131191-Allroad-Air-Suspension-Compressor-strip-amp-repair&p=908279#post908279)

I've looked in the boot and all I've got is a spare full size alloy and a huge battery. I suspect the air compressor is under the car at the rear.

I'll see where my nearest VCDS enabled garage is and get a scan done. Will report again soon.

Thank you both for your help! :o)

[Audi Doctor]

The faults with the valves are that they don't let the air out causing it to stay up,which in turn overheats the compressor due to it trying to compensate.ive fitted loads for same kind of fault.it can be checked quickly by bleeding front and rear suspension..if the valve is faulty it wnt lower.


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[gupsterg]

I've looked in the boot and all I've got is a spare full size alloy and a huge battery. I suspect the air compressor is under the car at the rear.

Ref SSP 344 part 1 pages 14/15, on page 14 you will see location of compressor/solenoid valve block.

[careless_adi]

But would this be causing the suspension to flag up a yellow suspension light error when inflating too?

[gupsterg]

In the A8 SSP on page 33 there is an explanation of lights, in the A6 SSP it directs you to read the A8 SSP as same tech.

Besides yellow light flags up when car is inflated too high or low in normal operation as per conditions in SSP they come on when fault occurs.

2 threads I read just now, link:- Question Air suspension amber light on the dashboard stays on (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?147264-Air-suspension-amber-light-on-the-dashboard-stays-on&p=822815#post822815)

Plus this Link:- Please Help A8 Air suspension light is on (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?118042-A8-Air-suspension-light-is-on)

So could be like ABS/ESP fault causing air suspension not work as in linked post or simple as fuse/relay as the lucky owner in second thread.

I think you need to do some DIY exploitative work coupled with a scan or if bought from a dealer ask their helps with it as you've only had it a month?

[Lukenkarl]

Another common fault is the relay which operates the compressor. These stick on and over heat the compressor. The lights then grey out. Common fault and Audi do a updated relay ( about £14 if I remember)
The compressor can be fried (as said earlier) if not sorted soon

[careless_adi]

Another common fault is the relay which operates the compressor. These stick on and over heat the compressor. The lights then grey out. Common fault and Audi do a updated relay ( about £14 if I remember)
The compressor can be fried (as said earlier) if not sorted soon

Hi Lukenkarl, I don't suppose you have the part number for this updated relay?

[careless_adi]

Hi all,

I've just been up the road to my local garage and the Snap-On ECU code reader gave an error code 02646 Plausibility of level control system. I am going to an Audi specialist in Haywards Heath tomorrow and see if they have any ideas.

Kind regards,

Adrian

[gupsterg]

That DTC code not really reveal much.


VAG Error Code: 02646

Fault Location:
Plausibility of Level Control System - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

Possible Cause:
Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.
Wiring/Connector(s).


I did have view for location/part no of relay but got confused on which P/N to post.

[careless_adi]

OK, so I went to an Audi specialist who plugged their VAG COM into the car and it read the following...

1 Fault Found
02646 - Plausibility of Level Control System
008 - Implausible Signal - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset Counter: 226
Mileage: 138825km
Time indication: 0
Date: 2014.07.10
Time: 10:25:30

Any ideas people?

[dan2485]

Implausible signal means that the wiring is damaged or power is lost to the system, and also it could mean that a sensor/module has failed.

Start with the basic's first.

1. is the fuse ok?
2. is there power to the relay?
3. is the relay working?
4. check all the plugs are plugged in correctly.
5. Check the airbags for splits and cracks.
6. does the system try to power up?


after those checks you will need the wiring drawing do you have access to them ?

As you don't have VCDS when you get it fixed you will need to find someone with VCDS to calibrate the system.

Ross-Tech: VAG-COM: Suspension Level Control Calibration (http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/levelcontrol.html)

[gupsterg]

Some info OP has posted in another thread, Link:- Allroad Air Suspension Compressor strip & repair - Page 24 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131191-Allroad-Air-Suspension-Compressor-strip-amp-repair&p=908550#post908550)


Funny you should say that about the temp fault. We watched the temp on the compressor rise, and it cuts out right when the MMI screen greys out and the orange light comes on, then the temp on the compressor goes down. It got to about 110deg c at one point.

So most elements are working but as soon as temp too high on compressor it's cutting out, could well by something to do with what was highlighted in post 6/7 in this thread :dunno: ...

[careless_adi]

Update - I bought and had fitted the air compressor repair kit from here - http://www.bagpipingandy.com/compressor.html. There was a fair amount of corrosion around the ring seal so I'm pleased I had it done. I have also noticed that the orange suspension light also comes on much quicker so that would suggest that the air compressor is compressing properly reaching the same conclusion as before, just much faster.

Unfortunately the error message (same as before) is still there. I have my car booked into an Audi specialist in Haywards Heath on Thursday next week, but in the meantime I have also found another garage in Plumpton who seemed confident they will find what's going wrong - apparently they worked on an Allroad only the other week with a similar problem. I'm going to see them next Wednesday.

Hi Gupsterg - I have no idea, and nor did the indi I went to, know what temperature these things are supposed to get to before they temp gets too high.

Hi dan2485 - I am starting to suspect that same thing - the indi where I'm going on Wednesday next week also mentioned the sensor/module. They do have VAG COM so could do the calibration also.
1. Yes fuse is OK
2. How do I check power to the relay?
3. I'm assuming the relay is OK. Without the relay working, surely the system would be off right from the start of the ignition?
4. All plugs in correctly especially now the air compressor repair kit was fitted
5. The air bags etc. look like they have a protective outer rubber cover so I can't really do that. I don't really want to cut these open!!
6. Yes the system does power up. At the moment I have it on 'Comfort', but can't raise it to 'Lift'. The orange light comes on after a few minutes though of normal operation staying in comfort.

Not one corner looks deflated though, even after an over night rest.

One thing I did note however just after I had the air compressor repair kit installed - I had my hand around the air compressor while it was working away. It was on for a minimum of 6-10 seconds before it stopped. As it did stop, I felt an ever so slight whoosh of air over my hand as it stopped vibrating. Is this normal?

One other question - does that reset counter from the VAG COM diagnostic I had done really mean the error has been reset 226 times? I've only had it reset a handful of times so that means it's been reset LOTS of times before I became the owner of the car *sigh*.

[gupsterg]

Meaning of counters in VCDS DTC Link:- Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour: Fault Codes (http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/dtc_screen.html)

I think the whoosh you felt is N111 the exhaust/drain valve on compressor opening up, ref pages 48/49 SSP 242, Link:- http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_10226.html#1

I'm surprised your indi with VCDS (former name VAG COM) did not do measuring blocks when DTC didn't reveal much?

Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A6 4F (2005- ) . Level Control J197 (http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_10216.html#1)

Now MVB 19 seems a good one to check, also 03 the pressure data in MVB 03 may show reason for N111 opening up :dunno: and perhaps MVB 07.

As you already know the yellow light is going on due to DTC detection Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A6 4F (2005- ) . Level Control J197 (http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_10219.html#1)

I don't know if you know location of relay, Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A6 4F (2005- ) . Level Control J197 (http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_10224.html#1)

So we all know yours is an A6 3.0 TDi but what year is it? as for wiring/relay locations can sometimes make difference.

[careless_adi]

Hi gupsterg,

It's a 56 plate. First registered Sep 2006. It's the 233hp engine.

[gupsterg]

I don't know if your indi is charging you for VCDS diagnosis, if so you maybe better off finding a VWAF member close to you on map and offering some beer tokens for diagnosis.

You can use the logging feature in VCDS to log MVB's but I've found using FastStone Capture's video screen capture better, then you place video on YouTube and post on forum.

[careless_adi]

Hi gupsterg,

My local indi has a snap-on error code reader which he doesn't charge for. The Audi specialist with VCDS I am going to on Thursday next week didn't charge to read the fault the first time (see my post above), but I suspect they will charge for further checks from now on.

I will have a look and see who else in my area has VCDS and stock on beer crates in the meantime :o

Update - after the air compressor rejuvenation yesterday, I left the car parked on the driveway over night as I usually do set to 'Comfort'. This morning, on the way to the next village along from us, the green air suspension light came on for 5 seconds or so, and then went away. After driving along for another hour and a half in total (3 half hour journeys), no lights came on what-so-ever. All the time I had the car in 'Comfort' mode. When I got home I felt confident enough to try the 'Lift' setting. As soon as I selected 'Lift' I heard the air compressor kick in. It took about maybe 30 seconds for the car to start doing anything, but the rear end of the car raised up, and then the front. The MMI screen didn't grey out and no light came on the dashboard indicating there was a problem - not even the green light. I noticed that on the MMI screen, upon selecting 'Lift', the up arrow goes white as that's the way I've selected the suspension to go. When the front end finished raising, the arrow pointing up went hollow as the system had finished raising the car awaiting a different input. The car looks like it's on its highest setting still sitting there on my driveway now. All good so far.

It is strange that immediately after the air compressor refurb yesterday, the system wasn't working, but today it does. Maybe the system just needed time to resupply the air storage tank?

I have not put the car on 'Dynamic' (the lowest setting), and then back to 'Comfort' or 'Lift' in fear of damaging anything until I have the fault codes scanned in and reset - if any - but I would suspect there are fault codes still as the system didn't work yesterday after the air compressor refurb kit was fitted.

I suspect this isn't the last of this problem.

[careless_adi]

OK, just took it for a drive to the petrol station and the suspension didn't go up to 'lift'. The orange light came on and the MMI screen greyed out.

[careless_adi]

Update - I went to an Indi today with the car. He thought he could hear an air leak in the front nearside area but then couldn't. Once the car was on a perfectly even surface, we measured the distance between the wheel arch and the centre of the alloy and we discovered the following...

FL = 39cm
FR = 39.5cm
RL = 39.5cm
RR = 39cm

He suggested the system needs recalibration. I am going back tomorrow morning first thing to have this done as he left his VCDS at home like a numpty.

My question is - how is the recalibration done through VCDS? What are the values we need to set? What mode do we need to put the suspension in - Dynamic, Automatic, Comfort or Lift?

EDIT - Dan on page 2 explains how to do it in VCDS!

Where is the relay located for this system? I'd like that replaced too but not sure where it is - the manual isn't very clear to me.

[careless_adi]

Audi Allroad Air Suspension Compressor Pump Air Dryer Repair Kit | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161372854977?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)Update - The Audi specialist found an air leak in the system. It was in the valve block right next to the air compressor. £470 later that is now changed, but with peace of mind as they looked at the whole air suspension system and found no other air leaks. They also recalibrated the air suspension system to the correct heights.

However, the system still comes up with the same error as before, with the MMI graying out etc. and they put it down to a faulty or tired air compressor - even though I've done the valve refurb. The say it overheats and shuts down.
They quoted me £1250 for a new compressor which is clearly over priced as they can be had on ebay for around £250 - £350 brand new.

My question is this - I found this on ebay (link above for some reason). Would there be anything more to replace or refurb on the compressor after this? Would there be any other reasons for the compressor to overheat? Or should I just buy a new compressor anyway (I'd rather not though!)?

[careless_adi]

Any more ideas guys and gals?