BLB 2.0 TDI (06) Oil Pump Concerns

[doylep]

Hi

I have just purchased a very nice looking 55 plate 2.0 TDI and am now concerned I might wreck the engine before long due to the many threads on Oil pump and chain drive failures on this engine...

My question is about prevention rather than cure!

Can anyone advise on following;

1 Although failure modes might be or seem to be instant has anyone fitted an oil pressure guage to try and catch a failure before the warning light comes on which I assume is set pretty low?
2 I am about to have a new timing belt and WPp fitted but if i decide to get a replacement pump, balancer shaft and gear retrofitted are these two jobs linked in any way? I don't want to have to take the belt off again in a week or two to do the pump!
3 Good replacement kits..... I know some are saying it has to be Audi Original?
4 Is the replacement task for pump etc all completed thro the sump... from earlier threads it appears so....?

Sorry to post when the answer is likely out there somewhere but I just sat on another Audi Forum for four days only to find its largely a USA site and i am not getting any answers....

Thanks for your comments..

Peter

[Guest 2]

Welcome to VWAF!

If you have a look through Oil pump chain smashed thru alloy case and discussion on replacement oil pump conversion kit for BLB engine (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=112278) it contains a lot of info.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[doylep]

Hi Chris

Yes I had read this thanks
.... it covers some areas but not if anyone has fitted a pressure guage or if the timing belt change is a completley divorced job from the pump...
I will keep searching the site thanks
Peter

[towcestervag]

just done another oil pump job
sump off to do pump
front of engine off to do chain/mod so do belt at same time
i dont think you will benefit from oil pressure guage as you will have to have lightening reactions to beat light
done 2 different repairs so far
1 fitting modified gear driven balance shaft assy
2 fitted new chain and tensioner and new hex drive key and modified balance shaft
no2 was the cheapest and so far the repair has been ok

[doylep]

Thanks for reply.....

Ok looks like do both together then.... more questions I am afraid...

1 do u recomend Audi parts or can u advise what manufacturer supplier you have used....?
2 Do you recomend striping out pump and checking what is fitted or can this be guranteed from BLB engine No ? So can buy up front?
3 How difficult is this to perform? I have fitted a few cambelts in my time and the odd Turbo on french stuff so am up for tackling this myself maybe!

[towcestervag]

Thanks for reply.....

Ok looks like do both together then.... more questions I am afraid...

1 do u recomend Audi parts or can u advise what manufacturer supplier you have used....?
2 Do you recomend striping out pump and checking what is fitted or can this be guranteed from BLB engine No ? So can buy up front?
3 How difficult is this to perform? I have fitted a few cambelts in my time and the odd Turbo on french stuff so am up for tackling this myself maybe!



depends on how much you want to spend?
gen Audi parts are modified balance shaft kit £1500 plus cambelt etc
never had any problems with oil pump itself its the hex drive that fails
to do job you need a ramp really
front of car removed
subframe released
you need a long ball end 5mm allen key for rear sump bolts(these are a ****)
you need a 12mm multi spline to remove balance shaft housing from block and you can get away with the special tool to time the shafts
you need tools to line up cambelt also
you can get repair kits from ebay
3 places powermax engineering in ireland
a place in derby
and a polish lad in leamington spa

[doylep]

OK many thanks....

I have stopped my local mech doing the AUDI cambelt and water pump (which i already bought - Gates make which i think are AOK... the Wpump is QH which I worry about but am told there stuff is better than their reputation many years ago!)....
actually got this local mech doing my aging Alhambra belt and pump instead of the AUDI ...(which is also due..at 156k its second time around)
The local mech I have is so good u need to book him a month in advance so might as well use the slot! .............He never heard of the AUDI 2.0 TDI Oil pump issue though!

The time I was going to spend doing the Alhambra myself will be invested on a bigger event now at tackling the Audi...
Time to invest in a pump kit and some specialist tools! .....I'll check out the options u mention for pump kits .....

I'll also keep the site posted with progress and may even photo some of it for some other poor *** who ends up here....
Anyway at least my engine is not damaged so its all about prevention for me!

Thanks again towcestervag...

Peter

[brummieboy]

I found myself in your situation when I bought a BLB engine A4 in 2008. Something worth having in mind, which was made to me by a very experienced member on here - it is natural that our posts on here are relate to help we need rather than good news stories. There have been lots of BLB engines sold, and this oil pump failure is more common in those engines than in others, but in percentage terms what size is the issue really? I came to the conclusion I'd have to be very unlucky, and have just got on and enjoyed my car. I certainly will not be spending £1k on this 'just in case'.

[doylep]

Update on 2.0TDI BLB Engine work...(manual 6 speed)

So its 8 months on from last posting and the A4 has done very few miles as its been sounding pretty awful (timing area or oil pump I am guessing) So I decided over Christmas to combine the overdue timing belt change with a sump off and inspection of the oil pump, which I suspect is chain unit!

My engine code is as follows for information WAUZZZ8E45A499854

So front of Car is off, Wheels off and car on blocks.......Aircon pump is slung out the way but still connected.....
Subframe dropped and engine mounts off...
Engine suspended by engine support beam (Machine Mart)

Now I have following issues..

All the sump bolts are out all but the back recessed two, they are visible but appear to be directly in line with the flywheel.... My problem is that there seems to be no gap in my flywheel to access these bolts as has been mentioned in various threads here and also in the workshop manual I have on PC. Haynes hardback manual also says if you have a "6 speed" gearbox the engine must come out to access these sump bolts!

Question 1 ; Does anyone know if certain 05 BLB {6 gear models} do not have recess in flywheel to access these last 2 ******* bolts?

The timimg mark on the crankshaft pulley is definately not near verticle as described in maual...... its as best at 11 oclock... there is no mark on the backplate to line up to, however the locking tool does fit and locate correctly so am assuming the timing is right! .... The car seemed to run fine by the way... see picture - The crank pulley mark is directly in line with the left edge of the recess hole for the locking tool if this makes sense...


Question 2 Is it possible the crank timing has been set one tooth out or does this sound right?


I have just purchased a double hex 12pt socket 19mm to remove the crank bolt and backplate so I can confirm that I do indeed have a chain drive pump, if so I intend to replace this with an overhauled s/hand geared unit....(TBC)
Update ..OK its official cover is off and its a chain drive! No surpise! Now need answer to Question 1 above pdq!

Question 3 .. Converting chain drive to geared, I will clearly need more than just the pump! Anyone done this conversion and is it better to get a complete kit or is it doeable to source a 2nd hand unit get parts overhauled (price wise probably better to buy as a complete finished unit I am thinking)

Thanks for any help...advice!

Peter

[stevegrass777]

Update on 2.0TDI BLB Engine work...(manual 6 speed)

So its 8 months on from last posting and the A4 has done very few miles as its been sounding pretty awful (timing area or oil pump I am guessing) So I decided over Christmas to combine the overdue timing belt change with a sump off and inspection of the oil pump, which I suspect is chain unit!

My engine code is as follows for information WAUZZZ8E45A499854

So front of Car is off, Wheels off and car on blocks.......Aircon pump is slung out the way but still connected.....
Subframe dropped and engine mounts off...
Engine suspended by engine support beam (Machine Mart)

Now I have following issues..

All the sump bolts are out all but the back recessed two, they are visible but appear to be directly in line with the flywheel.... My problem is that there seems to be no gap in my flywheel to access these bolts as has been mentioned in various threads here and also in the workshop manual I have on PC. Haynes hardback manual also says if you have a "6 speed" gearbox the engine must come out to access these sump bolts!

Question 1 ; Does anyone know if certain 05 BLB {6 gear models} do not have recess in flywheel to access these last 2 ******* bolts?

The timimg mark on the crankshaft pulley is definately not near verticle as described in maual...... its as best at 11 oclock... there is no mark on the backplate to line up to, however the locking tool does fit and locate correctly so am assuming the timing is right! .... The car seemed to run fine by the way... see picture - The crank pulley mark is directly in line with the left edge of the recess hole for the locking tool if this makes sense...


Question 2 Is it possible the crank timing has been set one tooth out or does this sound right?


I have just purchased a double hex 12pt socket 19mm to remove the crank bolt and backplate so I can confirm that I do indeed have a chain drive pump, if so I intend to replace this with an overhauled s/hand geared unit....(TBC)
Update ..OK its official cover is off and its a chain drive! No surpise! Now need answer to Question 1 above pdq!

Question 3 .. Converting chain drive to geared, I will clearly need more than just the pump! Anyone done this conversion and is it better to get a complete kit or is it doeable to source a 2nd hand unit get parts overhauled (price wise probably better to buy as a complete finished unit I am thinking)

Thanks for any help...advice!

Peter




1st I have only done the bkp engine on a Passat but the gap on the flywheel should be there somewhere,have you turned the engine with a spanner and seen the whole flywheel, the gap should be there somewhere.
Have you got something to hold the crank wile you undu that super tight bolt?
I put a oil pump off a older TDI Alh I think,that was a chain driven pump with no balance shaft module ,it runs fine.
I took the gear off and put a sprocket on.
It's not the chain that's the problem it's the balance shaft unit that is designed poorly.
In America they mostly get rid of this unit and replace with alh oil pump.

[doylep]

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply, In answer to your points made

1........ I put a paint spot on the flywheel and ran it 360 deg twice + m son checked the same - No gap

2.........I also have fabricated a tool now to hold the crank and the bolt is now out yes, see updated thread above

3.........From what I can see the ALH is nothing like the BLB so not sure we are talking about a soloution for the BLB are we?

4.......... The Chain plastic tensioner is part of the problem as far as I can see.. Mine is going anway to be 100% sure! better £800 now than £3k later

Peter

[stevegrass777]

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply, In answer to your points made

1........ I put a paint spot on the flywheel and ran it 360 deg twice + m son checked the same - No gap

2.........I also have fabricated a tool now to hold the crank and the bolt is now out yes, see updated thread above

3.........From what I can see the ALH is nothing like the BLB so not sure we are talking about a soloution for the BLB are we?

4.......... The Chain plastic tensioner is part of the problem as far as I can see.. Mine is going anway to be 100% sure! better £800 now than £3k later

Peter

If there isn't a gap you might able to use a long ball ended Allen socket but before you try tighten the other sump bolts nearby and hammer the end wile undoing.
The block of the 2 ltr TDI isn't far off the 1.9
I have done the bkp 2 ltr TDI and put the old 1.9 oil pump on without balance shafts,you just need to drill and tap the oil feed to put a bung in,the rest is the same.
The problem with the chain and tensioner is because it is driving a big balance shaft unit instead of a little oil pump,vw never had any problem with this drive on a straight oil pump.

[stevegrass777]

If there isn't a gap you might able to use a long ball ended Allen socket but before you try tighten the other sump bolts nearby and hammer the end wile undoing.
The block of the 2 ltr TDI isn't far off the 1.9
I have done the bkp 2 ltr TDI and put the old 1.9 oil pump on without balance shafts,you just need to drill and tap the oil feed to put a bung in,the rest is the same.
The problem with the chain and tensioner is because it is driving a big balance shaft unit instead of a little oil pump,vw never had any problem with this drive on a straight oil pump.

See attachment,that is a picture of a 2ltr TDI bkp engine in a Passat,although these are transverse so the pick up pipe might be different .

[doylep]

Thanks for your reply

Got to admit, when I first read this it sounded like a stretch, but on reading again it makes a lot of sense to do this if its proven to work OK. The cost is certainly going to be far less....
I just sunk another £185 into this project (to benefit of Machine Mart shareholders) as needed an engine crane to lift out unit today.... No other way to get sump off that I can see....

I will look at your option of using 1.9 pump a bit further... I am concerned ref the moditications I need to do and getting it right, sump pick up you mention and maybe others??

Q: Do you think the sump itself will need altering? Anyone else tried this as i have not read it anywhere?

Thanks again
:D

[stevegrass777]

There are right ups under the name balance shaft delete on American websites.
Bora Parts Inc. (http://shopping.boraparts.com/index.php?cPath=21_30_155_158)
You can get part numbers from there and there is a link to a write up on TDI forum.
Like I said I have done a Passat bkp one and it is fine,but I did fit a oil pressure gauge to make sure it was correct pressure and kept it in just in case,but there is no engine vibration what so ever having no balance shafts doesn't seem to make any difference.
I have got a Audi a4 sline estate that I will be removing the balanced shafts on.
Someone said you drop the sub frame on this one to get the sump off.
Finding the correct hole to drill and tap to bung up is difficult because there are a few holes in the same place,but this is the oil feed to the balance shaft unit and needs to be blocked because if it wasn't it would give low oil pressure.
I bought my parts from an engine reconditioner who routinely takes them out and replaces them but he said that one engine they had to make a pick up pipe for,but I don't know which engine he referred to.
He isn't really keen on everyone knowing how to do this but,I explained that the instructions are on the internet in America.
I needed a special tool to remove the gear that drives the gear driven balanced shaft unit on the Passat bkp engine,but this engine looks like you can remove the sprocket with a standard gear puller.
(the special tool is really strange and locates through holes in the gear locks and pulls it off as the gear is so close to the block that you can't get the gear puller feet behind,also the main agent I bought the tool from had never used one and wanted to know what I was using it for, main agents rarely get to take engine blocks apart and normally just replace the top or bottom of the engine not the internals.)I replaced mine because it is a poor design to drive a vital oil pump off a hardened steel pencil(that's what it looks like).The shoulders of this pencil are not big enough to drive the oil pump and the small amount of play that is there from new gradually gets bigger and bigger until it has worn the shoulders off the pencil and rounded the ends,The only way to make this good would be to increase the diameter to increase the size of the shoulders so they are strong enough to drive the oil pump.
Even the gear driven bkp oil pump is driven by the hardened pencil and mine at 71,000 miles was showing play and ware so I didn't like it and put it in my shed where it still is today(I must get around to selling it because it only has wear and they all have that).

[stevegrass777]

The hardest bits were undoing the crank bolt as it was supper tight and I had to get someone to hit the end of the power bar with a sledge hammer while I undid it with a 4 foot tube on,don't know why it was so tight,but you have done that bit.
Then getting the gear off was difficult because I tried to do it without the tool first. but you don't have to do that.
The most worrying was drilling the block then taping it to accept the bung,(an Italian car would accept a bung strait away.lol)
Although you have to be careful to not get swarf anywhere,gravity helped because I did mine from underneath I put the inside of a Biro in the hole and swept it around the hole knocking the award to the floor,if you blow with a compressor it could blow the swarf in not out.

[stevegrass777]

No you won't need to swap the sump but you will need to find out which pick up pipe will fit that sump and this might be trial and error unless you find someone that knows.

[brummieboy]

175k on BLB engine without this mod. High state of tune, is great and worry free. (of course that mileage means its not economically sensible to spend this cash on an 'in case' solution!)

[stevegrass777]

175k on BLB engine without this mod. High state of tune, is great and worry free. (of course that mileage means its not economically sensible to spend this cash on an 'in case' solution!)
It depends on your outlook,If you like the car and want to keep it then it might be worth doing,without this problem I don't think they suffer much else so 175k could be small mileage compared to what you could possibly get out of it,you could do the same again.
But if your engine does suffer sudden failure would it render it written off?
It's a hard call I know,you could just drive it until it gets noisy and change it then.
The only thing with letting things ride is they always go wrong at a time you need the car and have spent all your money.
At least if you schedule it will be on your terms

[doylep]

Update

Do to work and family issues had some delay in getting unit out... anyway ist now hanging by my new MachineMart Crane (wish it had swivel wheels both ends) and assisted by an old Draper Engine stand I had..
I was hoping the Draper stand would hold the whole AUDI unit but the offset on the plate will not clear the flywheel (taken the clutch off to inspect of course)
So only two bolts and arms are holding from the Draper stand at the moment.. Not enought o let go with the crane therefore...
Anyway its enough to steady the unit whilst I work on it...

Will drop the oil pump today and then decide which way to go... I have a number of options off ebay + the AHL pump option I guess from above.
One worry I have with AHL unit is when i come to sell it a buyer is far more likely to be happy with a modified balanced gear unit than a non standard mod do you not agree?

Other options and ways to burn money to consider now unit out;

1 Turbo - Little oil showing in the system coming by seals but I have seen worse, do I spend out and refurbish as its in my hand?
2 Clutch - Was fine and looks like it has a lot of miles left, for sake of £200 ish do I replace as its out and easy to do?
3 pipe clips - I am determined to replace the ******* german pipe clips thats keep spinging off when you have pump pliers on these, must have wasted hrs getting these ****** off
4 electric clips - most are ok but its a learning curve on how some of these work and a tutorial with pics would be a big bonus and great add on to ELSA workshop module or other!
5 Crankshaft Oil seal - New of course
6 Crankshaft Bolt - New


Sure that the list will grow... if I am not careful even a DIY job will run me to £1500+

Still cheap I guess compared to garage repair...

Oh yes next challenge..on Oil pump
When converting from Chain to Gear what are the main differences and what I need if I can convert my Chain unit to Gear myself? I assume ffrom what I see on ebay suppliers
1 Driving Gear, where can I get one?
2 Hex hardened new drive shaft
3 new Hex head and shaft
4 Timing tool to set up finished unit
5 Any other bits?

or do I need to obtain a gear unit complete and thro or sell on my old hain one entirely?

More pics to follow

Peter

[stevegrass777]

The clutch,can last many years in the right hands if it looks OK and drives OK then I would suggest keeping it unless you are getting it remaped. Turbo,they all show a little oil in the pipes it's hard to tell and you could be replacing a good turbo,maybe just feel if there is any end play in the turbo shaft and also see if it turns freely,although there is always play in the shaft it is how much is to much that is the most difficult to judge.You could just open the exhaust side and clean the vanes if it makes you feel better.
I do have a second hand gear driven balance shaft oil pump that has come off my Passat 2ltr bkp unit that has done 72,000 miles there is a little play in the oil drive hex and these do eventually fail the same as the others.I was going to sell it on eBay but could arrange a price if you are interested,I do have the gear also but this is currently stuck on my special puller and can't garentee I won't damage it getting it off but it will have the part number on.
Although I wouldn't personally do it that way I would put the alh pump on because it's more reliable, mine is producing 20 psi on hot tick over vw recommends 12+ and at 2000 rpm about 45-60psi and vw recommends minimum of 30 psi.vw bar numbers are 0.8 tick over 2 bar 2000 rpm.
Engine reconditioners do it this way(some do) because of reliability.
How will anyone know ,but in any case it is a more reliable pump.Vw have let customers down on this and haven't given a permanent solution, I spoke to a vw parts guy that said they stocked all the revision parts and fitted them is some customer cars and after 1 week were told they are producing swarf in the sump and not to sell any more until a new revision was made.
I suspect that they wanted them to fail at 180,000 miles and they probably did on the test bed but in real life some only managed 60-80,000 if this is not the case it's rather embarrassing that after all these years they can't design a reliable oil pump drive that looks like a child designed it.I took one glance at it and knew it wouldn't work ,either way its embarrassing as it looks half the diamiter it should be.
6mm approximately instead of 12mm that I would recommend or even drive it like the fuel pump/tandem.

[stevegrass777]

VW TDI Passat 2.0 oil pump convertion - YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oXIvSzIIak&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8oXIvSzIIak)
Some kind fellow has done you a you tube clip (not me)

[markspark71]

Have a read here

Oil pump chain smashed thru alloy case and discussion on replacement oil pump conversion kit for BLB engine - Page 7 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?112278-Oil-pump-chain-smashed-thru-alloy-case-and-discussion-on-replacement-oil-pump-conversion-kit-for-BLB-engine/page7)

kjauto did the conversion to the 1.9 oil pump his car has now covered over 20k since the conversion

I still have an sline tdi parked up in my garage with oil pump and turbo failed its been there 4 years now, I've just not had the time to repair it I need manage to remove the engine 2 week ago so it will get repaired at some point. I will be using the 1.9 tdi oil pump

[stevegrass777]

My b6 Passat bkp engine that I have done has done a few thousand miles since putting the alh oil pump in and all is good.Oil pressure is good and no vibration.
Do you need big ends and stuff,how damaged is it?

[stevegrass777]

Have a read here

Oil pump chain smashed thru alloy case and discussion on replacement oil pump conversion kit for BLB engine - Page 7 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?112278-Oil-pump-chain-smashed-thru-alloy-case-and-discussion-on-replacement-oil-pump-conversion-kit-for-BLB-engine/page7)

kjauto did the conversion to the 1.9 oil pump his car has now covered over 20k since the conversion

I still have an sline tdi parked up in my garage with oil pump and turbo failed its been there 4 years now, I've just not had the time to repair it I need manage to remove the engine 2 week ago so it will get repaired at some point. I will be using the 1.9 tdi oil pump


It might be better to get a low mileage second hand engine and convert that,it might be more cost effective.

[markspark71]

My b6 Passat bkp engine that I have done has done a few thousand miles since putting the alh oil pump in and all is good.Oil pressure is good and no vibration.
Do you need big ends and stuff,how damaged is it?

My oil light never came on it was the turbo shaft that snapped on mine but there was no point replacing the turbo as the oil pump chain had already started to rattle big ends should be ok but ive still to strip the engine

[markspark71]

It might be better to get a low mileage second hand engine and convert that,it might be more cost effective.

I've been thinking the same but finding a low mileage engine at a good price never come together as there are that many people wanting these engines. So its a case of better the devil you know

[stevegrass777]

If that's the case it should be a prime candidate for a alh oil pump.It's not easy but worth it if you get a working reliable car again.

[markspark71]

I will be using genuine vw parts for the conversion when I get round to it im in no rush tho

[doylep]

Hi

Latest installment on the 55 plate 2.0 143bhp TDI...

Ok so my chaincase driven unit has been stripped, (95kmiles) and the hex drive and mating shaft are starting to shall we say form different shapes to the original design!

Still some miles in it but god nows when it would have gone bang... Maybe 5000 maybe 10k but its on its way... be warned it will happen to you if you have one....just a case of when!

So options to I looked at for conversion from chain to gear drive looked inhibitive... why you say?

1 You ned to repair the end of the driven balance shaft and buy a new hex drive
2 You need 3 x new gears to drive the new unit
3 But by no means least (and no one who read the thread mentioned it chaps) there is no drilling machined in a chain unit for the central idler gear required so this would need to be reworked in a Jig and b***dy accurately too I guess..

I therefore checked into other balance shaft geared options (sorry ALH fans I have stayed with the dark side!)

Purchase 1 - Aborted
I happened on a New unit geared unit 2nd hand and not cheap at c. £700 on ebay and treked over to Oxforshire last Saturday morning where I met up with Borat or something similar selling a unit out of his boot.... Nice chap but decided for some reason not to buy on this occasion!

Purcahse 2
Two days later pitched up to view another similar unit with all the paperwork ex AUDI Germany and forked out similar money...
Fresh out the AUDI box! lovely........
I am now buying crankshaft gear from AUDI main dealer c £50 and have tabs on another idler gear on ebay... so all in all the new Audi pump will set me back £750... ****! Trying not to think about it... Concentrating on what I saved interms of blown engine!

A Sachs clutch (3 part) from C***be**ey Autos and Crankshaft seal from my other factors for £8.50 and I am on my way to putting the bitch back together.....

So as always I leave you with a question....

Removing crank chain drive and I guess oilbath heating gear drive... any tips?

Thanks for your replies as always.......now wheres my wifes best boiling pan!:D

Peter

[stevegrass777]

Hi

Latest installment on the 55 plate 2.0 143bhp TDI...

Ok so my chaincase driven unit has been stripped, (95kmiles) and the hex drive and mating shaft are starting to shall we say form different shapes to the original design!

Still some miles in it but god nows when it would have gone bang... Maybe 5000 maybe 10k but its on its way... be warned it will happen to you if you have one....just a case of when!

So options to I looked at for conversion from chain to gear drive looked inhibitive... why you say?

1 You ned to repair the end of the driven balance shaft and buy a new hex drive
2 You need 3 x new gears to drive the new unit
3 But by no means least (and no one who read the thread mentioned it chaps) there is no drilling machined in a chain unit for the central idler gear required so this would need to be reworked in a Jig and b***dy accurately too I guess..

I therefore checked into other balance shaft geared options (sorry ALH fans I have stayed with the dark side!)

Purchase 1 - Aborted
I happened on a New unit geared unit 2nd hand and not cheap at c. £700 on ebay and treked over to Oxforshire last Saturday morning where I met up with Borat or something similar selling a unit out of his boot.... Nice chap but decided for some reason not to buy on this occasion!

Purcahse 2
Two days later pitched up to view another similar unit with all the paperwork ex AUDI Germany and forked out similar money...
Fresh out the AUDI box! lovely........
I am now buying crankshaft gear from AUDI main dealer c £50 and have tabs on another idler gear on ebay... so all in all the new Audi pump will set me back £750... ****! Trying not to think about it... Concentrating on what I saved interms of blown engine!

A Sachs clutch (3 part) from C***be**ey Autos and Crankshaft seal from my other factors for £8.50 and I am on my way to putting the bitch back together.....

So as always I leave you with a question....

Removing crank chain drive and I guess oilbath heating gear drive... any tips?

Thanks for your replies as always.......now wheres my wifes best boiling pan!:D

Peter
I am a fan of alh oil pump because the cost is so much lower and the alternative is no better but 3 or 4 times the cost,my gear driven one got taken off because it has worn the hex and what makes you think the brand new gear driven unit won't wear the tiny hex shoulders that are not big enough?
I heated my sprocket with a plumbers blow lamp,although I did mine outside under a car port.
I would use a standard gear puller to get the sprocket off.
If you don't heat it enough you will get it stuck half on half off.

[doylep]

Thanks for your advice on sprocket, I was going to try your method first as I have a suitable puller.....

I have to assume AUDI have done some research with all the feedback they have had on these units... Are we really convinced they are idiots and do not want to protect their reputation and business? The solution I have is the AUDI recomended upgrade for my vehicle (at half the garage cost) and is at least some improvement I believe...
For example they have at least centred the hex drive which was a contributing factor to the earlier failures! I read these were assembled off centre by quite a margin on ealry units?

Whilst I agree you may be correct on your ALH solution it was just not the way i wanted to go and I guess not everyone will choose my solution & thats fine...
.... If i make it over 200k miles now I will be happy enough

Be nice to get other comments from the 1400 readers of this thread....

I'll try to load some pics for interest to others later

:Blush:

[stevegrass777]

Audi/Vw have tried and failed a few times to fix this problem, the vw parts man I spoke to said the last batch of stuff (this was last year) got sent out then they were told not to fit as they already had swarf coming of some.
In my book if the diameter of the oil pump drive is the same it is still under sized.
The longer shaft may make it last longer.
I think they tried to get these oil pumps to fail at 180,000 and on the bench they probably did ,and in real life they didn't, now I think they are trying to fine tune it so motaway and town driven oil pumps fail at 180,000 plus.
I also think that the 300,000 plus mile PD engines aren't good for business(selling cars).
Maybe I am wrong and that thin shaft will drive an oil pump for 200,000 plus,but I won't be trying it.
It should be much better than what was first used/produced and maybe everything has been hardened to a higher spec and maybe they have got it right this time.
I hope they have done the biz this time

[doylep]

Feb 14 - Update installment on the 55 plate 2.0 143bhp (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0049K70QE/) TDI..

Things have moved on now but I am a little stuck with the rebuild...

The drive chain sprocket is now off, I had to buy the right puller for this and it needs a lot of heat .....and for those new to this sort of thing its a learning curve incompassing a degree of worry as you reach what you think is the limit of the load the puller can take! Questions like "did I forget to take a pin or bolt out here?" rush through your head... The final high pitch ping of metal moving against metal is both a relief and a concern at the same time until finaly the thing gives way!

For those of you attempting this with a two fingered puller, I drove two additional wedges at 90deg to the puller (when what i considered was full load or as far as I dare go) in order to even the pull load on the sprocket as much as possible... this seemed to help!

The shaft looks clean and unmarked so sprocket must have come off pretty evenly... so job done:D

You will recall (those who have read this thread) that I am fitting a geared BS unit in place of chain one.
The drive gear now has to be heated to c. 220 deg C and then I have c. 4 seconds to drive the gear on to the shaft evenly aparently! Bit like a very expensive (if you get it wrong) version of "Its a knock out"

I have an IR temp gun to check temperature, which seems to work well but how to heat the gear itself evenly? The dealers or garages use a hot plate I believe (I may try and rent or borrow one) I have considered heating in oil but at this temperature you are close to the flashpoint of many light oils so could be pretty dangerous and moreover, if outside the heat loss will be huge in transfer distance/time I will take to get to the engine.....

I have other related questions here

1
With the flywheel off and the front crankshaft cover off (where you noramlly use T10020 locking tool) how can you lock the crankshaft whilst driving on the oil pump crank gear (for timing)?
I can't see the position matters for the crank gear as its not keyed and only way you could fix this is to drive on with oil pump and other two gears in place... In this case the crank gear would drive and turn as it meshed with the idler gear of course, but its tendancy (unless crankshaft is locked) would be as it bites on the shoulder to try turn and turn the crank, thus throwing out timing surely?....
If the oil pump gears are not locked at this time then they would be moved out of position unless 2 applies below...

2
The book says to fit the pump after or at least fit the centre idler gear last? This is much easier of course but with the Crank gear fixed on the shaft and positioned to TDC and the oil pump drive locked the centre idler gear needs to be able to mesh the two drive gears right?
How can this happen if the two driven gears are fixed? . Maybe I am missing something here?

Other areas of interest....
On close inspection the original clutch slave cylinder rubber sleeve/gaiter (SACHS) seems to have melted in two parts and needed replacing! Of course you cannot just buy the sleeve so a complete Slave Cyl (LUK) which looks just like the original OEM fit is now in place...
This is "oh" so easy to do with the engine out but I bet its a b**tard from underneath the car! At about c.£45 from your Auto factors its well worth considering if you have the engine out...

So spend wise with with new pullers, slave cyl, clutch (SACHS) and a replacement AUX belt tensioner + nearly every T100XXX Audi tool purchased my costs are rocketing close to most small countries national debt!... I have pretty much just decided to ignore the cost and if I need it buy it..... :mad:

Look forward to replies as always

[stevegrass777]

In the workshop Manuel for the sprocket it says heat at 220 in the oven for 20 mins if I remember correctly,but I did this and by the time I got outside and lay under the car I only managed to get it half on,so the second attempt I used the plumbers blow lamp and just moved it around until it was all the same color and knocked it on no problem.I was told to use a camping gas ring by someone else but I didn't have one.
I would heat it a bit above 220 myself as half on is no place to be.
I wouldn't let anything get in the way of the gear when being knocked on there should be no obstruction or complications so in my view I wouldn't put the oil pump on first.
I wouldn't think the timing on the pump was as critical as the cam/crank timing but as I haven't refitted a balance shaft pump with gear yet ( and probably never will as I get a strong errge to throw them in the skip when they are in my hands)don't know,at a guess you are only talking mm in between teeth and would this make any difference?

[doylep]

March 22 - Update installment on the 55 plate 2.0 143bhp (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0049K70QE/) TDI

Engine back in.... Couple of lessons for others although its just what I found and maybe obvious to others...
I'll add to the list later and add pictures in case it helps anyone?

1
Wasted hrs trying to get engine to mate with gearbox, (new clutch and slavee fitted). After struggling for a while.......decided to try with clutch slave out and heh presto! it dropped straight in! The spring presure on the thrust bearing was enough to stop the box slotting into place.
If you have done this it may be obvious but was not to me and manuals said nothing!
2
Like a dummy I fitted the starter motor before wiring up! and had to take it out again... yes I know, you would never do this right!
3
Didn't check the power steering fluid was a VW special and had to trip out to buy CHF 11S fluid... (******* expensive too)
4
Although I labeled everything and sperated bolts etc I still ended up with three small issues..marked below (i, ii, iii etc)

i) Connector nearside by Headlight (on car loom) doesn't seem to connect to anything yet....
:Blush2: OK found out this connected to the fog lights.... bumper not on so it was floating around in engine bay! Came on it by chance!
Top tip... make sure the fog light cable on nearside is threaded where you need it as with bumper on, the lead can become trapped behind plastic ducting....!

24028


ii) two brackets, small for elec cables look like.... cannot find where these go.......................pics to folllow


Engine turned over to get oil and water circualted.... will fire up later today hopefully

Peter

[stevegrass777]

I would suggest running a manual oil pressure gauge even if its just for start up so you can see what pressure you at running. Even if you are only running 1 bar the light will go out.
On hot tick over you should be running at least 0.8bar or around 12psi @ 2000rpm hot you should be running at least 2 bar or around 30 psi.
Cold they run a lot higher than this mine runs at 40+ psi cold on tick over but hot it runs at 20psi on tick over.

[Crasher]

We always put the oil pressure gauge on these for start up so we know for sure we have good supply as the modern VAG oil presume warning system is utterly useless. I think the delayed warnings it gives have significantly added to the amount of damage caused.

[doylep]

Hi

Tested pressure with new CLARKE guage.... Was easy to connect up which was good! Pressure around 60psi cold (tick over) and Hot around 22 psi..... Nothing leaks and have run up to temp... Hard to get the elec fan to kick in though on a cool day! will test later...


:Blush:

[stevegrass777]

Seems OK then,Just putting a oil pressure gauge in my a4.Dropbox - 2014-03-28 14.48.37.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7igbfp2ibzsdflf/2014-03-28%2014.48.37.jpg)
Dropbox - 2014-03-28 14.48.51.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yu17c6gga974veh/2014-03-28%2014.48.51.jpg)
Dropbox - 2014-03-28 14.48.59.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfpqplk04mt09vi/2014-03-28%2014.48.59.jpg)
Dropbox - 2014-03-28 14.49.29.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jo2i55pz3lo2t75/2014-03-28%2014.49.29.jpg)

[doylep]

Does this mean you are putting a permanent guage in the dash on your A4? ... I am thinking of doing away with Ash tray and using this area for same later!

I have a couple of small parts I cannot find locations for, I marked most stuff up but these two are eluding me.... pictures attached...

If you know where they belong I would be greatful...

1) Is a bracket I suspect is bolted to the gerabox, it has tie for electrics and anothe bolt hole..... description of part no is water pipe bracket?
2) Is a small solid tube which will fit inside an outer rubber one..... not sure its supposed to do this .....or where they fit either...

Thanks if you can help...

24101

[Crasher]

Remote mount! That is an interesting a useful to remember problem solver however I would have attempted to use the T down at the block so as to maintain the pressure switch in the OE postilion IF there was sufficient space.

[stevegrass777]

I wouldn't worry to much about the stock switch being 6-8" away from its original position as oil pressure is pretty much instant through the oil ways,I did a Passat b6 with just the t piece.
Dropbox - 2013-09-22 12.47.01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/titgsy9yhdzrpfs/2013-09-22%2012.47.01.jpg)
But the b6 had more room to do it,and I just thought there wasn't enough room on the a4 it possibly could be done like that but on looking at it I decided to try another way.The pipe said made in Germany I thought that was good.Both fittings can be found on eBay.Just search for oil pressure gauge adapter vw.The remote one was off automech I think.

[Crasher]

I use www.thinkauto.com (http://www.thinkauto.com) and Goodridge for these sorts of things, Think are excellent at this. Design something on paper, spec it, say M10 male and T piece to M10 female over whatever length, and they will make and ship it straight away, brilliant company.

[stevegrass777]

This is the gauge fitted,with warning light.
Dropbox - 2014-04-04 07.49.52.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmbtmuoonscpkyx/2014-04-04%2007.49.52.jpg)
It is this one
52mm Blue Stepper Motor Warning Oil Pressure Press Gauge BAR With Warning Light | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/52mm-Blue-Stepper-Motor-Warning-Oil-Pressure-Press-Gauge-BAR-With-Warning-Light-/371018130460?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item566267641c)

[doylep]

Update on Rebuild - A4 BLB 2.0 B7 143 bhp

So last week I finished the job, MOT done with no advisories ! That was a surprise..... even the tracking seems OK....

Oh there was three days interlude when my sons 156 2.4 JTD Alfa alternator packed in! If you think Audi's are a pain, try taking an Alfa apart... Half the car came apart to get the alternator out....

On the A4 BLB, I did have a small issue with coolant on lower rad connection, only due to not making the joint hard up to the stop before adding the U clip... Under pressure the hose shifted and I lost about 1/2 litre of fluid... No great problem...

I have now run about 150 miles and all seems Ok, except I have some sort of air leak on turbo inlet side or other.... It definatley doesn't sound like exhasut blowing... I will cehck around... I had this on other vehicles where the airbox looked locked down but was a pig to actually get seated properly... any ideas on this one?

Still could do with identifying bracket in pic above?

Thanks for all those that input in the last two months ..... Its been memorable! Happy to help anyone attempting similar!

Peter

[Crasher]

What is the part number on the bracket?

[doylep]

Good point....... the bracket no is 8EO971845E

[Jon Dyson]

Hi my 2.0 tdi engine seized due to oil pump drive shaft failure. I had the oil pump replaced with a chain driven pump. Not cheap, but much more solid.

[doylep]

Thanks for your reply....

Unless this was a while ago and to my knowledge VAG only recommend a replacement now to be to a geared not chain driven variety.... I am sure many workshops will replace the chain unit and there are many kits on ebay to do this also? Not sure why you mention this is more solid? More solid than what exactly?

The below is just my view as a good DIY mechanic.... and from what I researched so open to challenge..

I would consider there are three options to anyone on rebuild...

Note below: OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture (Audi)

a) Fit as original a new chain set up and pump to original balance shaft unit -------- Cheapest as was OEM option but not ideal in my view as leaves chain and *hex drive in place
b) Fit a new balance shaft, gear set and pump.............................................. .......VAG proposed option (as would be proposed in dealer today)
c) Throw out the balance shaft unit and retrofit a chain driven pump as described in this thread by others.... (cheapest overall option but needs retro knowledge to fit and leaves car as non standard for any would be purchaser!)

I as you can read I opted for a DIY version of the VAG dealer route.... this keeps the weak link of the hex shaft but is as per the OEM suggestions today....* note; any new hex shaft should be longer than original and be centered which will help life of new units over old!

My car has now run c. 1500 miles now without issue....... In the end its personal choice and depends on money, how skilled you are if attempting DIY and your view on the original spec of the car or OEM view........

Hope you have many trouble free miles Jon...