A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible?

[hotfire2009]

I have a 3.0Tdi Quattro Avant (2005) and my Audi dealer tells me I need to replace all six injectors at something like £2000+

Is this an easy job? Can injectors be refurbished?

Anyone have any experience in this area as, apparently, diesel is slowly getting into my sump when the injectors deliver too much diesel into the pistons when I'm idling in heavy & slow moving traffic. Otherwise the car runs fine!! Any comments. guidance or help would be very appreciated??

[kite]

http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/injectors.aspx

Diesel Bob can test and repair injectors.
You could try a local Bosch centre.

[gupsterg]

diesel is slowly getting into my sump when the injectors deliver too much diesel into the pistons when I'm idling in heavy & slow moving traffic. Otherwise the car runs fine!!

Are you able to give more info as how they diagnosis fault... eg had oil change and they find diesel mix (just trying to gain knowledge!;))
As how read your OP it seems like you are not experiencing smoke/rough idle making you feel they are faulty?

Check this thread http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?129235-Idle-smoking-3.0&highlight=white+smoke+a6 page 2 post 17 can clean, no refurb/repair option

there might be more info on VWAF, try search box...

but I had seen this thread on another forum http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a6-s6-allroad-forum-c5-c6-chassis/132119-a6-c6-2006-3-0-tdi-injectors-need-changing-advice-please.html a success story via ebay & secondhand injectors all for £700...

Just to give you example below are part no for injectors used and when dropped because of issues/better manufacture etc for my A6 3.0 TDi Engine code BMK Injectors (currently mine are 059 130 277 S, must be orig.)

059 130 277 S
059 130 277 Q DROPPED 01/06/2005
059 130 277 AA DROPPED 01/06/2006
059 130 277 AB DROPPED 01/09/2006
059 130 277 AH DROPPED 01/04/2009
059 130 277 BD Current part since 09 (these apply to BMK BNG ASB engine codes)

If you ease gently cover off engine (held on by 4 rubber socket/pins) part no is on the side of injectors, just below flare nut. I found using one of those dental mirror things allowed me to read/decipher as back to front in reflection! :)

I would check on ebay (uk/germ.), why not try a local VAG specialist to fit? as long as you get genuine ones even main dealer would fit for you, but would check first as some are accommodating others are not...

[hotfire2009]

Many thanks for the advice, info & other contacts - a lot to consider!! Phil

[gupsterg]

As I'm :newbie: not sure which sponsor is close to you check in here http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?215-Site-Sponsors-Directory-Of-Site-Sponsors maybe second opinion help?? one time a main dealer say "your rear bump stops are perished advise change" I checked myself and yes rubber surface looking a little aged but no cracks/tears and still functional...


Are you able to give more info as how they diagnosis fault... eg had oil change and they find diesel mix (just trying to gain knowledge!;))
As how read your OP it seems like you are not experiencing smoke/rough idle/faults making you feel they are faulty?

Why I ask this is I have an issue with my car (not going to digress), I found a thread on German site which seem to suggest if injectors dribble then when starting car you would get uneven start-up/maybe rattle noise... do you get this:confused:

[joedredd]

If you ease gently cover off engine (held on by 4 rubber socket/pins) part no is on the side of injectors, just below flare nut. I found using one of those dental mirror things allowed me to read/decipher as back to front in reflection! :)

Gup can you show this "Flare Nut" on a pic, as I aint got a clue where you mean ;)

Cheers

[hotfire2009]

No, I'm getting heavy blue smoke when in very slow moving traffic - say for 3 to 5 minutes or when I start it in the morning and don't drive off immediately (bit like leaving choke on). It all clears it self after a quick acceleration. Car runs fine but I am told by Audi that too much diesl is being delivered into pistons which creates blue smoke AND, a big AND, and that some diesel is seeping through cylinders into the sump and increasing the oil level!!

[gupsterg]

Gup can you show this "Flare Nut"

:biglaugh: flare nuts, union nuts..... I'm going Nuts :smashfrea :stooges: ;)

I've even started to resort to dentistry equipment on my car!!!;)


I found using one of those dental mirror things


No, I'm getting heavy blue smoke when in very slow moving traffic - say for 3 to 5 minutes or when I start it in the morning and don't drive off immediately (bit like leaving choke on). It all clears it self after a quick acceleration. Car runs fine but I am told by Audi that too much diesl is being delivered into pistons which creates blue smoke AND, a big AND, and that some diesel is seeping through cylinders into the sump and increasing the oil level!!

Well I know oil level not drop or rise since last oil change, check nearly every week as I drool and polish engine cover;) occasionally seen smoky start in mornings but again it clears very quickly and I'm putting this down to outside temperature, car warming up, etc. Get grey/black spurt of exhaust smoke at beginning of hard acceleration from stand still@lights/junction (through JoeDredd & his contact network was able to get advise from another good member that all is ok)...

[joshA6]

Pay £75 and get a Diesel Terraclean done before even looking at changing the injectors. Also, pouring out the fuel filter into a clear glass jar and checking for soot clinging to the sides is a good test for a pourous head or leaking injectors. A8 tech knows the procedure

[gupsterg]

Also, pouring out the fuel filter into a clear glass jar and checking for soot clinging to the sides is a good test for a pourous head or leaking injectors. A8 tech knows the procedure

Good info, putting my mind also at ease about my early injectors... when done my fuel filter and pour out had no signs of contamination... had stamp of 2007 on it even though F.A.S.H and last was in 2010@60K

Just to add to joshA6 :beerchug: good post, fuel filter easy to do at home, two clamps, retaining clip on valve, one nut/bolt... I filled new FF with clean diesel, ran fuel pump via VCDS, to elminate most air I could, easy start up ;)

[hotfire2009]

Well, it gets better and better - Thank guys for the support, comments and guidance so far. I'm not over confident about some Audi dealerships; I remember about 2 years ago when I asked if I could have am AMi upgrade and I was told it wasn't possible on my car - loss of confidence or what!

Thanks everyone so far.

[gupsterg]

I asked if I could have am AMi upgrade and I was told it wasn't possible on my car - loss of confidence or what!

had that conversation with my local Audi dealer, trust me my first visit was BAD :( ... they handed my a quote of nearly £1k worth of general servicing even though onboard comp. still say 3000 miles xxxdays... usually what I do in year but A6 ;) I've luved driving so much that done nearly 6K in since buying Aug 11... and via health check created mini flood under carpet check this http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?90321-A6-Avant-Rear-Washer-Problem&p=700859#post700859 I don't know if I should have thanked them or not :zx11: ...
but thank Tech God for WWW as that help sort that and servicing car@home...

[gupsterg]

Right peeps this where I am on my injectors will be doing further tests today to check...

Besides using info from A8 Tech's :You_Rock_ posts... stuff I've been using/studying...

Reference docs: TPI 2012744/6 Rattling noises for 1 - 2 seconds after start - V6 2.7/3.0 TDI

Extracts for this context:

Customer statement / workshop findings


a. ........


b. Noticeable speed drop in starter motor. Brief metallic knocking noise after the start.


Technical background


a. .....
b. This complaint can be mixed up with something else. If the injectors start to leak (injector needle wear), after a stationary period of 10 - 20 minutes this can lead to accumulation and evaporation of fuel in the combustion chamber.


This makes starting the engine more difficult. The fuel accumulation leads to a premature ignition in the combustion chamber and hence to a metallic knocking (hard combustion). Similar to an incorrect chain tensioner!

Note:


Before fitting an optimised chain tensioner, make sure that the complaint is not caused by one or several leaking injectors.


b. Check: Read measured value block 70 - 77 in the engine control unit and proceed according to TPI 2013969. 17121


My car data...

Tuesday,19,June,2012,21:02:27:06090
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
Data version: 20120401





Initial Scan
After Engine Start
After Engine Shutdown


Address 01: Engine (4F0 910 401 L)

20:55:04 Group 072
-36.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.
-4.0 ms Time Corr.

20:55:04 Group 073
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
0.0 ms Time Corr.

20:55:04 Group 074
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.

20:55:45 Group 075
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.

20:55:45 Group 076
-26.0 ms Time Corr.
-16.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.

20:55:45 Group 077
-38.0 ms Time Corr.
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.
Address 01: Engine (4F0 910 401 L)

20:58:42 Group 072
-36.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.
-4.0 ms Time Corr.

20:58:42 Group 073
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
0.0 ms Time Corr.

20:58:42 Group 074
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.

20:59:04 Group 075
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.

20:59:04 Group 076
-26.0 ms Time Corr.
-16.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.

20:59:04 Group 077
-38.0 ms Time Corr.
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.
Address 01: Engine (4F0 910 401 L)

21:02:22 Group 072
-36.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.
-4.0 ms Time Corr.

21:02:22 Group 073
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
0.0 ms Time Corr.

21:02:22 Group 074
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.

21:02:43 Group 075
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.
-2.0 ms Time Corr.

21:02:43 Group 076
-26.0 ms Time Corr.
-16.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.

21:02:43 Group 077
-38.0 ms Time Corr.
-14.0 ms Time Corr.
-8.0 ms Time Corr.



Second round of test I've done...

Reference docs: TPI 2014211/7 Vehicle pinks or judders in warm-up phase- A8 3.0, 4.2, A4, A6, Q7 2.7, 3.0 TDI

Customer statement / workshop findings


A8 3.0 TDI, 4.2 TDI; A4, A6, Q7 2.7TDI, 3.0 TDI - vehicle pinks or judders in warm-up phase.


As a result, the adjustment of the injection is incorrect and combustion noises can be heard, sometimes in connection with juddering or misfiring.


Technical background


Complaint in the injector production.

Production change


Modified injector production from Chassis No:

A4: with 3.0l TDI from: ........


A6: with 3.0l TDI from: ........


Cabriolet: with 3.0l TDI from: ........


A8: with 3.0l, 4.2l TDI from: ........


Q7: with 3.0l TDI from: ........


Measure




Try to reproduce the customer complaint so that it can be clearly assigned to this TPI. The following repair must only be carried out, if all the criteria (model/type, chassis number, engine/gearbox code, PR number(s), software version, code etc. ) match exactly. Otherwise this solution won't work and repeat repairs may be necessary. In such a case, we may reject the warranty claim and redebit the parts.






Incorrect injectors can be established as follows:

After an overnight stationary period drive the vehicle with cold engine between 1200 - 1600 rpm till the complaint occurs. Constantly read the measured value block 13 and 14 for the smooth running control in the engine control unit. The values of one or several cylinders should noticeably move to positive.



Replace the injector with the highest deviation and all injectors produced between 1.3.2006 and 30.4.2006.



Example of production date: 060304 stands for 4.3.2006


If the values are correct, look for the cause elsewhere.



When sending in the injectors attach the measured value blocks 13 and 14 of the engine control unit.

My car data...

My first log 17118 this was from cold start standing overnight

My third log 17119 this was from cold start standing overnight

My A6 Avant 3.0 TDi 55 Plate '05
Engine code: BMK Injectors P/N: 059 130 277 S Date code: to be checked...

Module 1 Log

Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 4F0 910 401 L HW: 4F0 907 401 A
Component: 3.0L V6TDI G000AG 0040
Revision: --H01--- Serial number:
Coding: 0011772
Shop #: WSC 02334 785 00200
VCID: 254BDA7FECFA271

So now I need someone to tell me if my injectors are good or bad please & thank you... :o

As I've got better with doing this I will do another set of tests doing smooth acceleration/deceleration between 1200 -1600 rpm for second test...

If anybody wondering why I'm doing this I have chain rattle have been to VAG Specialist he suspects chain tensioner is my issue as £2k fix before booking want know if injectors are good or else change as well..

If injectors are iffy then maybe another £1.5K so want to make a more informed decision...
Wanted some clarification from VWAF bod's :grouphug:

Out of TPI 2012744/6 Rattling noises for 1 - 2 seconds after start - V6 2.7/3.0 TDI I have both issue's I think :confused:


a. For 1-2 seconds the engine makes sporadically rattling noises after the start. (Tensioner)


b. Noticeable speed drop in starter motor. Brief metallic knocking noise after the start. (Injectors)



Out of TPI 2014211/7 Vehicle pinks or judders in warm-up phase- A8 3.0, 4.2, A4, A6, Q7 2.7, 3.0 TDI

I get none of those issues just used for information, measuring blocks and better understanding...

My brain is now frazzled so please can someone interpret :o

[Crasher]

So are you of the opinion that your timing chains need replacing?

[gupsterg]

Hi crasher, thanks for reply...

Yes, I suspect timing chains, I've been to see a workshop from description of fault I gave and them starting and then switching off waiting restarting car they felt that was diagnosis... I never first divulged what I thought it might be...

He gave me verbal quote of £1500 to £2000, I said let me get money together then will look in booking/quote etc this was a several weeks/months ago...

I also wanna check/know state of my injectors before pay for chains to make better judgement...

In the meantime I been researching faults and solutions...
Starter control/cranking MVB seem ok to me, battery has been tested as good for cranking test at local battery shop...
Rattle@startup happen sporadically, sometimes none at all, nothing lose in engine bay AFAIK done full service at home... only in Jan 12

Rattle@startup even if starter never pause for some instants...
Sometimes starter pause then you guaranteed rattle@startup...

[a8 tech]

firstly replace the right bank tensioner (most common)

this can be done in situ takes 3 hours

if this doesn't sort it replace the full chain assembly (engine out)

its unlikely to be the injectors as you normally suffer white smoke as well and pre ignition

the chains can snap so bare this in mind

[gupsterg]

Hi A8, thanks for reply :)

I've looked at this thread Timing chain noise 2.7 v6 tdi (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?97666-Timing-chain-noise-2-7-v6-tdi) then studied this as well audi 3.0tdi engine measurement blocks (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?102358-audi-3.0tdi-engine-measurement-blocks) and this Audi A8 3.0 White smoke on cold start up (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?129239-Audi-A8-3-0-White-smoke-on-cold-start-up)

I am happy to just get all chains done in one hit, rather pay £2k and know done than replace lump...
I am probably also going to get Tiptronic oil and filter done...

Before taking plunge just wanted to eliminate injectors... as I've been contemplating shall I just P/X and get another A6 but very difficult sometimes to find same spec as Avant I got in 3.0 TDI in limited budget plus some retro's are a) PITA to do b) cheaper to get car with them in

Like this is good example but 2.0 TDI Audi A6 Avant 2.0TDI SE Auto LEDS Xenons Nav Soft Close Doors Elec Mem Seats | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271003151336?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

I don't do lot miles my last car 20k in 5 years, I just want something that makes me grin RS6 out of my league so next best IMO 3.0 TDI

I've also now just got it to state I like, other than this issue... I get no smoke other than usual diesel would produce@full throttle on first burst of acceleration (black), idle none regardless of outside/engine temp, cold wintery morning first start standard amount of smoke in my view for diesel with no DPF, she drink no oil, coolant clear pink.

Paid £10K Aug 11 70K on clock now at 77K 17124

[joedredd]

Hi Gup

Just noticing lately that I am getting the dreaded "white smoke" whilst in stationery traffic, which I am assuming mean the injector/s need replacing. Do you have any idea how long they will last? as want to try and make them last until service/ MOT in October if possible. Thinking might get them cleaned via the terraclean as soon as I can find someone who can do it.

[gupsterg]

.... Do you have any idea how long they will last? ....
Sorry mate no idea but some people are just carrying on until they go pop... check this thread A6 in need of some advice (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131556-A6-in-need-of-some-advice)


Thinking might get them cleaned via the terraclean as soon as I can find someone who can do it.

Do not know if this gonna help because smoke is because of physical wear on injector as much as I understand from delving into this issue...

This is the TPI that apply to your issue




Technical product information

Transaction No.: 2013969/11


White smoke or juddering at idle speed - V6 2.7 l / 3.0 l TDI

Release date: 11-Aug-2008





Customer statement / workshop findings



White smoke from the exhaust system and juddering when the engine runs at idle speed for some time - V6 TDI 2.7l / 3.0l TDI.


Technical background



Mechanical wear of the needle attachment of the injector leads to an increased fuel injection into the combustion chamber. The fuel is not completely burnt, which causes white smoke (unburnt fuel) or juddering when the engine runs at idle speed for some time.


This complaint occurs only on vehicles with more than 50,000 km.


Measure


Read the measured value blocks 72 - 77.
3 values per measured value block appear there (for 300 bar, 600 bar, 1000 bar).


Should the values be higher than minus -45 ms (example - 60ms) or


on digit 2 be


higher than minus -15 ms (e.g. 20ms),


the needle attachment is worn and the injector is incorrect. To avoid repeat repairs, replace all 6 injectors.


>>>> Observe the algebraic sign (minus) in measured value block 72-77 !!!!! <<<<<

[joedredd]

Hey Gup looks like there is now a BE version;

NEW GENUINE AUDI A4/A5/A6/Q7 3.0 TDI INJECTOR 059 130 277 BE TUAREG 059130277BE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-GENUINE-AUDI-A4-A5-A6-Q7-3-0-TDI-INJECTOR-059-130-277-BE-TUAREG-059130277BE-/271001249648?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f18eee770)

Same part number, perhaps they are still using us for guinea pigs!!

[gupsterg]

From what I can tell that may be for newer engine codes but not sure as I'm just a guy with an estate :)

[gupsterg]

059 130 277 BE Same part number, perhaps they are still using us for guinea pigs!!

Just double checked 059 130 277 BD (since 04/09) is last rev at time of writing this post for 3.0 TDi engine codes BMK, BNG, ASB

059 130 277 BE at time of writing this post is current rev for 2.7 TDi engine codes CANA, CANB, CANC, CAND then on 3.0 TDi engine codes CDYA, CDYB

So above are the later series of engines in A6 from about 09 I think...
As I not mechanic/techie not know if be compatible with earlier engine/ecu software etc...

Maybe A8 Tech or Crasher can comment??? :o

[tsekul]

Hey Gup looks like there is now a BE version;

NEW GENUINE AUDI A4/A5/A6/Q7 3.0 TDI INJECTOR 059 130 277 BE TUAREG 059130277BE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-GENUINE-AUDI-A4-A5-A6-Q7-3-0-TDI-INJECTOR-059-130-277-BE-TUAREG-059130277BE-/271001249648?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f18eee770)

Same part number, perhaps they are still using us for guinea pigs!!

Hi there,

I have been told by my dealer that I need all my injectors replaced. They have quoted 2800 quid to do the job and say it only about 2 hours work, most of the cost is the parts.

Has anyone used these replacements and are they ok. I have tried to get the exact part number but the dealer refuses to tell me saying that if they gave me the wrong ones they would be liable (yeah right) they also said you have to take it to them anyway to get them balanced. I assume this is <removed>. But thought I would check.

Found a company who say they can do it. http://www.revotechnik.com/modules/GMap/moreDetails.php?id=406

Thanks Tim

06 Audi Allroad 3.0 V6

[gupsterg]

What are they quoting you for job?? describe please inc parts?? labour?? etc

[joedredd]

Gup re the BE injectors, I havent heard from my friend as he is on holiday at the moment! If I do find anything I will let you know. But from what you have said above I think you are right, it looks like the BD version is the latest.

[gupsterg]

I've been thinking and not had chance... to ring local main dealer parts dept...
But wonder if I/we were at a main dealer what rev would they install??

[tsekul]

They just said it would be 2800 pounds. The labour is approx 2 hours. I am making enquiries at the moment.

It really annoyed me that they refused to give me the part number, they just serviced the vehicle and have all the specs so if they can't guarantee they can get the right part, they are either incompetant or lying, either way I don't think I will be going back.

[gupsterg]

From my digging around and AFAIK

i) only one supplier of injectors

ii) only genuine ones available

iii) once new fitted your car ECU needs to know their factory tolerances/setting make them function correctly


Injector Quantity Adjustment (IMA) and Injector Voltage Adjustment (ISA)

These values represent the behavior of an injection valve (Piezo Injector). Caused by manufacturing tolerances the injectors have a unique behavior and get divided into separate classes.

In combination with the automatically determined learning values of the engine control module the pre- and post-injections are being calculated individually for each valve.

The behavior of an injection valve is also mileage dependent, so a valve with e.g. 10000 km has a different behavior then one with 70000 km.The control module determines these automatically while driving so the learning values change against the mileage.

When altering one of the following values the learning values are being reset because the ECU thinks you are adjusting a new valve.

The IMA-ISA values need to be adapted when:



One or more injection valves have been replaced. Make sure not to adjust the valves which have not been changed!
The engine control module has been replaced.
Do NOT adapt these values when you did not replace one of the above parts, also not for training or demonstration purposes.


The adjustment code can be found on the injector itself, it is a 7-digit value and does only use the following chars: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,K,L,M,N,O,P,R,S,T, U,V,W,X,Y,Z. A value of AAAAAAA is also not valid.



Reference Link:3.0l V6 TDI (BKS/BMK/BUN) - Ross-Tech Wiki

IMO only £1500 to £1700 should be quote at independent/vag specialist garage...

Seen where some mechanically capable members have done at home after buying parts and coding with VCDS...

Seen posts where people buy on bidding from ebay pay £100 -£200 to have them fitted and cost below £1000 for them...

[gupsterg]

I've been doing some research to understand injectors as a non mechanical owner...

Firstly... Link:- Common Rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail) Link:- Injector principles/inner workings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPwLEMh6fM&feature=channel&list=UL)

Then this shows stripping/rebuilding of gen 1 CR Injector Link:- Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Y3dM8ZApo&feature=related) Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_D9kCSL3M0&feature=relmfu)

If you search on youtube some great videos on injectors... Link:- Bench testing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=T3AOERi_TiE&feature=endscreen)

Above stuff is general info... Ref relevant SSP for info on the actual injector used...

[fieldy]

I've been doing some research to understand injectors as a non mechanical owner...

Firstly... Link:- Common Rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail) Link:- Injector principles/inner workings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPwLEMh6fM&feature=channel&list=UL)

Then this shows stripping/rebuilding of gen 1 CR Injector Link:- Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Y3dM8ZApo&feature=related) Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_D9kCSL3M0&feature=relmfu)

If you search on youtube some great videos on injectors... Link:- Bench testing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=T3AOERi_TiE&feature=endscreen)

Above stuff is general info... below is the actual injector used...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/2_7%203_0%20TDi%20stuff/30TDiInjector.jpg

This is still on my 'to-do' list :(

Let me know if you find any at a decent price. Im searching like mad too.

[gupsterg]

I rang Link:- parts_for_audi_and_vw (http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/parts_for_audi_and_vw/&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2754) I asked:-

i) if I could collect ii) warranty conditions iii) receipt/genuine business

He said:-

i) I'm based in Poland, you can collect in UK address where they mail from ii) warranty on used ones if fail within month I will exchange for new you only pay difference

iii) other than paypal no receipt, no real UK busines address, etc

After that I thought not got time for this hassle... unless fitting yourself you buy used you could negate saving by repeat issue... you buy new from above is he gonna uphold warranty?

I don't want to chase around someone on ebay/Poland...

So for the moment my best prices been from Link:- PW Euro Parts (http://www.pweuroparts.co.uk/)

The other thing I'm considering is that due to wanting genuine part/fitting/warranty and increasing better service relationship with dealer may just go down route of them doing it...

[fieldy]

I rang Link:- parts_for_audi_and_vw (http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/parts_for_audi_and_vw/&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2754) I asked:-

i) if I could collect ii) warranty conditions iii) receipt/genuine business

He said:-

i) I'm based in Poland, you can collect in UK address where they mail from ii) warranty on used ones if fail within month I will exchange for new you only pay difference

iii) other than paypal no receipt, no real UK busines address, etc

After that I thought not got time for this hassle... unless fitting yourself you buy used you could negate saving by repeat issue... you buy new from above is he gonna uphold warranty?

I don't want to chase around someone on ebay/Poland...

So for the moment my best prices been from Link:- PW Euro Parts (http://www.pweuroparts.co.uk/)

The other thing I'm considering is that due to wanting genuine part/fitting/warranty and increasing better service relationship with dealer may just go down route of them doing it...

I spoke to this guy too, £1450 for 6 new BD's collect from N1 London.

Best quote i had from dealer was £2200 for 6 x AX's exchange injectors with 2 year warranty. Im keen to know why they sell exchange injectors at £259 and new BD's at £359 each. If the exchange injectors are as new why do they sell the BD ones which i assume supercede the exchange injectors? Therefore are they of a lower standard. Its all boring and confusing but unfortunately i need them (on top of my visit from the pulley fairy!!).

[gupsterg]

IIRC PW Parts for BD was £300 inc vat plus you give back your old ones ... but mind been all over the place really can't remember :Blush2:

Apole ( Andy ) PM some info about a injector workshop Link:- United Diesel (http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/index.php) ... so at some point gonna investigate this route...

Now after looking at those videos/availability of exchange injector... if Bosch supply innards of injector then someone can refurb... I feel confident that an exchange injector is as good as new...

I once had an exchange engine fitted at a dealer as a family member sent vehicle into a large puddle... tell you the truth was spot on...

[apole]

Hi,

Not sure if this company can help, a friend of mine had a good experience with them for a PD diesel injector issue, ones in Audi going to be different but maybe worth asking:

About Our Diesel Injectors - United Diesel, Shropshire (http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-injectors.php)


Sorry Gup, just noticed you've already mentioned this :Blush2:

[gupsterg]

No worries Andy :beerchug:... they do the CR injectors as well...


Common Rail Injectors

(with the additional signal control unit TC38 )


Leakage time, checking the mechanical condition of the injector.
Injection time, checking the reaction to the command by the ECU
Pressure at injection
Pressure drop, checking the injected flow quantity.
Print out available showing Leakage Time, Injection Time and Pressure Drop.



Thanks for PM of Link ;)

Some great info on there about injectors... Link:- Diesel Tips | Troubleshooting - United Diesel, Shropshire (http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-tips-troubleshooting.php)

Great PDF's on "Injector blow by",etc,etc ... after looking at videos/that site you begin to comprehend how wear occur...

[niall campbell]

when I was a lad , many moons ago and at agriculture college , with loads of diesel engines .......................... we were told that ideally injectors were to be replaced when you would replace spark plugs. E.G every 6 months However on a farm I can assure you this does not happen as far too expensive. We saw how the injector would go in a machine and get cleaned and produce its fine sprays , usually 4. Some basics come into play with putting clean diesel into the tank , not easy on a farm when using 5 gallon drums sometimes in a field rather than drive back to fuel up. Also changing the filter at EVERY service blah, blah. However what about the diesel additives you can buy ????

[gupsterg]

we were told that ideally injectors were to be replaced when you would replace spark plugs. E.G every 6 months

I hope you not take wrong way... at the prices CR injectors cost people would be nuts to buy this tech if every 6mths they needed swapping...


However what about the diesel additives you can buy ????

What's at fault is i) wear ii) production issue... no additives are going to help...

[Crasher]

hmm, now let me see, £580 EACH x 6 plus labour every six months...not sure on that, I will have to have a think...no I have thought about it, **** off!

[gupsterg]

Just got off the phone with Martin@Link:- Wainwright Bros (http://www.wainwright-bros.co.uk/index.html)

Really good chat :fing02: ... the prices are so viable for a test and rebuild of an injector :) ... way cheaper than taking risk with out of UK ebay ones... he will also supply refurbished injectors...

He spoke highly of Tony@Link:- United Diesel (http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/index.php)

So gonna send him all details of Audi P/N & Bosch P/N of mine to see what he says :D...

Still got to give Zesty the A6 a period of settling in ( Link:- Lemon Thread (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=761608#post761608) ) if she not settle... even a test of injectors is financially small outlay :approve:

[fieldy]

Just got off the phone with Martin@Link:- Wainwright Bros (http://www.wainwright-bros.co.uk/index.html)

Really good chat :fing02: ... the prices are so viable for a test and rebuild of an injector :) ... way cheaper than taking risk with out of UK ebay ones... he will also supply refurbished injectors...

He spoke highly of Tony@Link:- United Diesel (http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/index.php)

So gonna send him all details of Audi P/N & Bosch P/N of mine to see what he says :D...

Still got to give Zesty the A6 a period of settling in ( Link:- Lemon Thread (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=761608#post761608) ) if she not settle... even a test of injectors is so economically :approve:

Let me know where you get with this, might be a group buy discount to be had. As we seem to be in the same boat :)

[joedredd]

Thanks for the text message Gup. Keep us all posted on how you get on with the rebuild of injector. Considering that these injectors have been going for nearly 7 years, someone must be able to rebuild them !!! If they are selling exchanges that proves they can be rebuilt. I am also surprised that there hasnt been any mention of upgrading the injectors like on C5 models ie Bosio.

Gup will call you soon been a bit manic with work, home etc.

[fieldy]

Just got off the phone with Martin@Link:- Wainwright Bros (http://www.wainwright-bros.co.uk/index.html)

Really good chat :fing02: ... the prices are so viable for a test and rebuild of an injector :) ... way cheaper than taking risk with out of UK ebay ones... he will also supply refurbished injectors...

He spoke highly of Tony@Link:- United Diesel (http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/index.php)

So gonna send him all details of Audi P/N & Bosch P/N of mine to see what he says :D...

Still got to give Zesty the A6 a period of settling in ( Link:- Lemon Thread (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=761608#post761608) ) if she not settle... even a test of injectors is financially small outlay :approve:

Hi Gup - did this guy come back to you with further information? Really interested to see what he said....

[gupsterg]

Found something better ;) :beerchug: ...

How does £900 + VAT for brand new unused genuine Bosch REV BD set of 6 sound? :) ... from UK NON eBay business seller... 12 months warranty...

It is an outright purchase thus I/you do not need to give our old ones back... so I was thinking do all 6 then get old ones professionally tested and then flog the good ones :) to recoup some cost...

Had to go on run to London today :rolleyes: so back on the injector trail tomorrow :) ...

[fieldy]

Found something better ;) :beerchug: ...

How does £900 + VAT for brand new unused genuine Bosch REV BD set of 6 sound? :) ... from UK NON eBay business seller... 12 months warranty...

It is an outright purchase thus I/you do not need to give our old ones back... so I was thinking do all 6 then get old ones professionally tested and then flog the good ones :) to recoup some cost...

Had to go on run to London today :rolleyes: so back on the injector trail tomorrow :) ...

You little Beaut.... :) Been looking for months how did you manage that!! :)

Last garage told me 3 out of 6 on mine were out of tolerance...

[gupsterg]

Sheer fluke :) ... I'm going to the unit tomorrow hopefully or order on the phone... if I can get the purchase order approved by the director general! (the wife! :p)

Once I have them in my mitts I shall reveal source :) ...

[fieldy]

Shear fluke :) ... I'm going to the unit tomorrow hopefully or order on the phone... if I can get the purchase order approved by the director general! (the wife! :p)

Once I have them in my mitts I shall reveal source :) ...

I hate that conversation. My latest dust up with Audi resulted in the 'why dont you get rid of it and drive my Mini, youve always got the van'. NNNNNNNoooooooooooooooooooooo!

Let me know i would be interested. :)

[Crasher]

Bloody women! They just don't understand...

[fieldy]

Bloody women! They just don't understand...

It's cream and convertible...just No.

[gupsterg]

Well just ordered new set :) due to buying set of 6 free delivery... as they say every little helps ;)

Soon the unboxing/buying experience :D...

[gupsterg]

I've gotta admit this was the quickest delivery ever! :approve: I order yesterday@1pm ish today by 9am ish they were in my mitts :fing02: and now the unboxing :beerchug:...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACuCsz54Z0

All the boxes have a small selloptape seal... all injectors are in bag which folded at top then selloptape wrap... all include the lower copper washer, a "O" ring on fuel return...

If you view Link:- Bosch online catalogue (http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/public/catalog/products;jsessionid=c9JduAHS8QOIS-kj-Cfp_R7?lgRedirect=true)

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/2_7%203_0%20TDi%20stuff/MyInjectors1.jpg

So when Bosch make/sell injector for an indi supplier it will print 0 445 115 078 and 0 445 115 079 when supplying dealer...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/2_7%203_0%20TDi%20stuff/MyInjectors2.jpg

So 059 130 277 BD (Audi P/N) which is 0 445 115 079 (Bosch OE P/N) which again is 0 445 115 078 from indi :beerchug:

So thanks Karen & Vicky plus team from Link:- SPECIALIST DIESEL INJECTION SERVICES (http://www.commonraildiesels.com/INDEX.ASP)

[sparker]

So Gup now you have them, what do you think about changing them yourself?

You could try one and see how easy it pops out. If it is a pig then ask your friendly Audi dealer.

Most people would be more worried about the "new injector setup" on VCDS. I think you will sail through that part!

It must be nice to have those little gems in front of you and I bet you are itching to get them fitted.

All the best.

[gupsterg]

My view left side when standing at front of engine bay look easy access... right I think coolant tank gonna have to be moved/removed...

Still gonna wait to see if more info come up in here... Link:- Audi A6 4F C6 V6 2.7 3.0 TDi injector removal / installation tools & tips (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?139570-Audi-A6-4F-C6-V6-2-7-3-0-TDi-injector-removal-installation-tools-amp-tips)

If not seized torque on the items seems low so should come apart AOK... but sometimes the easiest things become a mare!

Would be so satisfying to do at home... adaptation is easy enough to do... collar have code and input via VCDS... AFAIK :)

[Crasher]

The air box also has to come out. Make sure you order the six retainer plates before you start, 059 130 216 C as these must be replaced. Oil the O rings before fitting the injectors and carefully clean the copper seal seating face without marking the seating surface.

[gupsterg]

Installing new injectors
When installing new injectors, the following components must be renewed:
Clamping piece
Copper seal
Renew O-ring for injector bore.
O-ring for fuel return line connection


There is an "O"ring (item 29) on illustration 130-70... P/N WHT 000 884... this does not seem to be with injectors..

On exploded view in service guide "O" ring shown between copper washer and injector nozzle end...

On exploded view in parts catalogue it is shown further up the shaft of injector...

Where does this "O" ring go? red line or green line or another spot..

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/InjectorOring.jpg

So my current shopping list is:-

059 130 216 C x 6 Tensioning plate
N 904 465 02 X 12 Hex.Collar Nut
WHT 000 884 X 6 "O" Ring for injector bore

Injectors come with these parts but gonna order spares in case lose whilst fitting...

059 130 519 x 1 "O" Ring / Copper washer
059 130 119 x 1 "O" Ring / Fuel return pipe seal

Above coming to £77... also gonna get Sealey VS2049 Injector removal kit (£70 ish)...

In this video at point 1:19... they show a injector seal extractor is this something I need? Link:- Hubitools Common Rail range of tools (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPMiWHEfHDk)

In this thread is a home made tool someone used to clean injector seat... Link:- Injector seat cleaning tool (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/v-class/1510724-injector-seat-cleaning-tool.html)

Any suggestion on how to clean?

Thanks Crasher :beerchug:

[sparker]

When you pull the old ones out you can see where the o-ring fits in.

Don't think you need seal extractor. Copper seal normally comes out on the injector, carbon deposits hold it in place. Just make sure it has so you don't double up. If it isn't out then I would think you would be able to hook it out.

The cleaning tool looks OK but I would be afraid of one of those bristle breaking off. Suck debris with some sort of vacuum and see how the seats look. All the injectors I had dealings with where in cast heads so much tougher to mark but if there where carbon deposits very carefully, gently use a flat screw driver round the seat, being careful not to mark the alloy and vacuum again? Please someone jump in if that is daft. Otherwise, carb cleaner might help clean them. Maybe Crasher could advise.

Good advice from Crasher.

Looks like you will have all you need with that shopping list.

[gupsterg]

When you pull the old ones out you can see where the o-ring fits in.

I had thought this... but wanted verification just in case they moved when removing or something...


If it isn't out then I would think you would be able to hook it out.

Yep agree my thoughts... just wanna avoid accidental drop of something into chamber... best I've seen is VS2054 & VS2049 £95 inc VAT & delivery...


The cleaning tool looks OK but I would be afraid of one of those bristle breaking off. Suck debris with some sort of vacuum and see how the seats look.

I agree, the bristles make me worried too... I may use vacuum with like a home made attachment to clean seat...

Maybe there is a chemical cleaner which maybe used? like you carb cleaner suggestion...

[Crasher]

You should use a wood dowel, a cloth and some surface cleaner such as Würth Multipurpose cleaner. Avoid spaying cleaner down the hole (such as brake cleaner) or the noise it will make on start up will make you poo your pants!

[sparker]

So easy when you know how. Again great help from Crasher. Get right down into the hole with cleaner and cloth and no chance of damaging the alloy. I did think the screw driver idea was probably a no no. Still got your answer now.

[gupsterg]

Besides the great techie posters, trust me mate you been great with help and morale boosting :bigok:

If it was not for the threads people post about mechanical things they've done... I think I would not even attempt it... I'm just a tech Geek :)

Most I've done usually is standard servicing this IMO is another kettle of fish :)

With guidance and right tools all achievable...

[a8 tech]

Caution


Risk of damage to injector sealing surface.




To remove carbon deposits from the injector sealing surface, clean the injector bore in the cylinder head with a cloth soaked in engine oil or rust solvent.

[gupsterg]

Today ordered the remaining parts from Audi, be here tomorrow :) ...

I found in the Laser tool catalogue Link:- 4640 Impact Diesel Injector Remover VAG (http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=0&item=4079)... which is equivalent to VAG T10055 and has T10055/1 adapter...

I am also going to get Link:- 4920 Diesel Injector Line Socket Wrench Set 1/2"Drive (http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=0&item=5141) and Link:- 4702 Diesel Injector Copper Washer Remover/Installer (http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=0&item=4092)

About £135 is cost from online retailer... going to use oil first to clean seat but will also get the Wurth Powerful Multi Purpose Cleaner as backup...

Another idea that came across my mind is diesel used on cloth must also be good to use?

Gonna measure injector to get appropriate dowel...

[pechius]

Can someone clarify, please?

1) In measurement blocks 72-77, does 72 represent 1st injector, 73 - 2nd, etc.?
2) When checking values, is injector considered bad when any of the values are higher than -45( meaning -40, -20, 0, 10...) or the second value in any
of the measurement block is higher than -15(meaning -10, -5, 0... 20)?
3) Can you judge by value, how weared the injector is? Is that like the higher the value the more weared the injector is, even if it's not exceeding -45 or -15 in second injector?

[gupsterg]

Answer to your question 1...

72 for Cylinder 1
73 for Cylinder 2
74 for Cylinder 3
75 for Cylinder 4
76 for Cylinder 5
77 for Cylinder 6

Answer to your question 2, 3....

value rise up negative scale is more wear IMO

ie -45 vs -50, -50 equal more wear than -45

You must also be having an issue IMO like say white smoking, juddering, etc otherwise maybe ignore values...

This is the conclusion I've drawn from meddling with mine and comparing month to month the data in 72-77...

So if I'm wrong maybe A8 Tech or Crasher can explain further... as I'm just an owner trying to fix my car :Blush2:

[c4a5er]

I think you have to also bear in mind that the compensation could in some cases be down to other mechanical factors/imbalances

[pechius]

I think you have to also bear in mind that the compensation could in some cases be down to other mechanical factors/imbalances

What factors/imbalances could it be?

[c4a5er]

I guess anything that affects the cylinder charge and compression.

piston ring/bore wear, valves, worn camshaft lobes and followers....... just something to bear in mind, the likelyhood will depend on the particular engine and mileage......if there are suspicions a compression test would help confirm.

[gupsterg]

What factors/imbalances could it be?

Damn I'm feeling imbalanced with looking at all the issues :biglaugh:

Please digest stuff below... again not meaning to offend you... do not know to what degree you understand your engine...

I never knew some of this stuff until now :Blush2:


These were a good read besides other stuff I've been swotting up on...

Link:- HowStuffWorks "Top 10 Improvements in Engine Design" (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/10-improvements-in-engine-design.htm)

Link:- HowStuffWorks "How Turbochargers Work" (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm)

Link:- Audi turbochargers with variable turbine geometry - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kENxjxhoP24&feature=related)

Link:- HowStuffWorks "How Exhaust Heat Recovery and Recirculation Works" (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/hybrid-technology/exhaust-heat-recovery-recirculation.htm)

Link:- Intercooler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler)

Link:- HowStuffWorks "How Electronic Throttle Control Systems Work" (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/electronic-throttle-control-systems.htm)

Some of the stuff above explains principles... helped my to gain more insight... still need to learn more :Blush:

A great video on injectors IMO...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_LahS5T3DM

Injector bench test video Link:- Bosch Piezo TDI Diesel Fuel Injector Common Rail (2000 bar!) Bench Testing... - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DD77qooe8)





Web pages I viewed

Link 1:- How Does an EGR Valve Work (http://www.agcoauto.com/content/plugins/p2_news/printarticle.php?p2_articleid=207)

Link 2:- VW and Audi TDI EGR system FAQ (http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/egr-system-clogging-TDI.htm)

Some of the info also looked at is from the EU5 3.0 TDi SSP (the face lift A6 09-11) Link:- EU5 3.0TDi SSP (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=3000cc%20v6%20tdi%20audi.pdf&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.1stcallhosting.com%2Ftech%2Fa udi%2Findex.php%3Fdir%3DEngine%252F%26download%3D3 000cc%2BV6%2BTDI%2BAudi.pdf&ei=-auKULnKGIO-0QXUz4D4Bg&usg=AFQjCNFjF4zJXiJPAdBS05F8PKrK_KHJrg&cad=rja) , other SSP's studied Link:- SSP 350 (http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_350.pdf) and Link:- SSP 325 (http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_325.pdf)


Please also read some of this info here Link:- BMK 3.0 TDi hunting erratic idle revs ( Have I got the most lemon A6!!! ) - Page 11 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=755712#post755712)

[pechius]

Answer to your question 1...

72 for Cylinder 1
73 for Cylinder 2
74 for Cylinder 3
75 for Cylinder 4
76 for Cylinder 5
77 for Cylinder 6

Answer to your question 2, 3....

value rise up negative scale is more wear IMO

ie -45 vs -50, -50 equal more wear than -45

You must also be having an issue IMO like say white smoking, juddering, etc otherwise maybe ignore values...

This is the conclusion I've drawn from meddling with mine and comparing month to month the data in 72-77...

So if I'm wrong maybe A8 Tech or Crasher can explain further... as I'm just an owner trying to fix my car :Blush2:

Extracted from TPI 2013969_12.txt:
Read the measured value blocks 72 - 77.

3 values per measured value block appear there (for 300 bar, 600 bar, 1000 bar).

Should the values be higher than minus -45 ms (example - 60ms) or

on digit 2 be

higher than minus -15 ms (e.g. 20ms),

the needle attachment is worn and the injector is incorrect. To avoid repeat repairs, replace all 6 injectors.

Observe the algebraic sign (minus) in measured value block 72-77 !!!!!

This is pretty confusing for me, but doesn't it say the opposite?

I mean "higher than minus -15 ms (e.g. 20ms)" as I understand means that -15 is still good, but -10ms,0ms, 20ms is bad. Doesn't it?

[snapdragon]

"How does £900 + VAT for brand new unused genuine Bosch REV BD set of 6 sound?"
Great price, I would have jumped at that 2-3 weeks ago when I got mine.
I just changed mine in the A8 ASB engine yesterday. I bought them from mr.smith.von.germany via ebay.de
I took a punt on BE suffix specc'ed for 1800 BAR systems, even though my car spec is 1600 BAR BD (to replace my AB suffix)
My rationale was that the vendor and others (mostly on german and russian forums) found they worked.
Also, the fuel rail pressure rarely reaches 1600 bar anyway, so most of the time they operate at ~500 bar anyway.

They were quire easy to fit and took about 4 hours to do.
You do need the clamps, as they are very heavy duty springs so may relax with age.
I would also replace the 6 covers in the head cover, as these have seals which may not seat correctly after being disturbed or slid over the ridges on the injector.
You can undo all of the high pressure metal pipes with an open ended 14mm and 17mm spanner.
The braided return lines have quick-fit connections which can be fiddly at first.
You have to 'lean' on the plastic fingers that stick out with one finger and pull up the centre via the flange at the top. It slides about 10mm up and then the connector pops off. It helps to wet them with meths or IPA first, but maybe WD40 would do.

The BE injectors work superbly, my smoke at idle has gone, less smoke at WOT smootehr running. Peformance is the same or slightly better.
Less cranking to start too.

Good luck.

[fieldy]

"How does £900 + VAT for brand new unused genuine Bosch REV BD set of 6 sound?"
Great price, I would have jumped at that 2-3 weeks ago when I got mine.
I just changed mine in the A8 ASB engine yesterday. I bought them from mr.smith.von.germany via ebay.de
I took a punt on BE suffix specc'ed for 1800 BAR systems, even though my car spec is 1600 BAR BD (to replace my AB suffix)
My rationale was that the vendor and others (mostly on german and russian forums) found they worked.
Also, the fuel rail pressure only reaches 1600 bar anyway, so most of the time they operate at ~500 bar anyway.

They were quire easy to fit and took about 4 hours to do.
You do need the clamps, as they are very heavy duty springs so may relax with age.
I would also replace the 6 covers in the head cover, as these have seals which may not seat correctly after being disturbed or slid over the ridges on the injector.
You can undo all of the high pressure metal pipes with an open ended 14mm and 17mm spanner.
The braided return lines have quick-fit connections which can be fiddly at first.
You have to 'lean' on the plastic fingers that stick out with one finger and pull up the centre via the flange at the top. It slides about 10mm up and then the connector pops off. It helps to wet them with meths or IPA first, but maybe WD40 would do.

The BE injectors work superbly, my smoke at idle has gone, less smoke at WOT smootehr running. Peformance is the same or slightly better.
Less cranking to start too.

Good luck.



This is interesting, I bought the same set off Mr Smith EBay.de a few months back. Started a thread somewhere about the minefield of part numbers out there!

I took them to the Specialist who refused to fit them as they were for 2008 onwards. I then took advice from one of the guru techies on here who advised not to fit as they were 1800 not 1600 bar.

Sent them back, lost about £150 in PayPal exchange rate and put the whole thing down to experience. Von Smith guy swore blind they would work but I just couldn't take the punt or find anyone who would fit them!

Glad to hear you have had sucess, youre a braver man than me, I was too scared of engine damage. Mine still not sorted :(

[c4a5er]

Extracted from TPI 2013969_12.txt:
Read the measured value blocks 72 - 77.

3 values per measured value block appear there (for 300 bar, 600 bar, 1000 bar).

Should the values be higher than minus -45 ms (example - 60ms) or

on digit 2 be

higher than minus -15 ms (e.g. 20ms),

the needle attachment is worn and the injector is incorrect. To avoid repeat repairs, replace all 6 injectors.

Observe the algebraic sign (minus) in measured value block 72-77 !!!!!

This is pretty confusing for me, but doesn't it say the opposite?

I mean "higher than minus -15 ms (e.g. 20ms)" as I understand means that -15 is still good, but -10ms,0ms, 20ms is bad. Doesn't it?

As I understand it zero is the objective but plus or minus figures are ok to about +2.5mg/str or -2.5mg/str. Figures outside of that range suggest abnormal amounts of adjustment/compensation for one reason or another. If readings are in milliseconds I imagine the same thing still applies re extreme + or - figures.
Apart from acceptable amounts of compensation a diagnosis can be helped by comparing cylinders to each other.
AFAIK a minus value means the system is shortening the pulse width in an attempt to reduce the injection quantity of that cylinder, this could be because of a worn injectors tendency to pass more fuel than a unworn one. Conversely a longer pulse width is attempting to increase fuel quantity. The system is attempting to balance the power each cylinder produces to enable smooth running. As previously said I believe mechanical factors can also be responsible.

[pechius]

As I understand it zero is the objective but plus or minus figures are ok to about +2.5mg/str or -2.5mg/str. Figures outside of that range suggest abnormal amounts of adjustment/compensation for one reason or another. If readings are in milliseconds I imagine the same thing still applies re extreme + or - figures.
Apart from acceptable amounts of compensation a diagnosis can be helped by comparing cylinders to each other.
AFAIK a minus value means the system is shortening the pulse width in an attempt to reduce the injection quantity of that cylinder, this could be because of a worn injectors tendency to pass more fuel than a unworn one. Conversely a longer pulse width is attempting to increase fuel quantity. The system is attempting to balance the power each cylinder produces to enable smooth running. As previously said I believe mechanical factors can also be responsible.

It may be so, but what does this mean then: "Observe the algebraic sign (minus) in measured value block 72-77 !!!!!"?
What you said, is about 13,14 measured value block. A8 tech wrote about this in another thread Audi A8 3.0 White smoke on cold start up (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?129239-Audi-A8-3-0-White-smoke-on-cold-start-up)

[c4a5er]

Why don't you get it?? it means observe the presence of a minus sign.

some values will be positive but are not preceded with a positive sign but the minus values have a minus sign to draw attention to the fact that it's a minus value!

[gupsterg]

For the meddling owners :) ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/2_7%203_0%20TDi%20stuff/DSCF5025-Copy_zps1b0ed480.jpg

In above you can see the injector, the copper seat washer, the O ring for injector bore, the O ring for the fuel return, the injector clamp and nut... I also bought new end caps & bolts...

I bought the Link:- Laser 4640 Injector tool (http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=371&item=4079) and opted for the Link:- Laser 4984 Difficult access sockets (http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?item=5192) both tools £68 inc VAT & DEL...

I was able to get some 18mm and 15mm wood dowel off cuts from Wickes to use with cloth & oil to clean injector seat...

I'm now just waiting for the right weather conditions & time to do the injector change...

[Cwizard]

Looking forward to see what happens once you're done changing the injectors. Good luck!
How much did they all cost? Including all the tools needed to change them?

[gupsterg]

The injectors were £1080 inc VAT & DEL, they had the copper washer and fuel return O ring with them, but otherwise £3.28 & £4.30 each...

The injector bore O ring 84p each (x6), clamp £11.68 each (x6) + nut 29p each (x12), end cap £7.47 each (x6) + bolt 38p (x16) ....

So all parts £1209.50 + £68 for tools = £1277.50 ... dowel was about £2 ...

Snapdragon been great with sharing further details of his experience with injector swap via PM :) ...
I was tempted to do without tools like he did but did not feel confident enough :Blush2:...

My rationale was I saved on price of the injectors + paying for fitting so why not get the tools?

I may ebay the inj.rem. tool & old injectors as faulty to recoup some £££, the sockets seem handy to keep :) ...

[gupsterg]

Bank 1 of injectors done today http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/yahoo.gif... there were moments of this http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/scared2.gif and this http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/sos.gif... next Bank 2 at another opportune time...

Soon a how to... but for now...

Dirty bore...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/Dirtybore_zps81eca4f6.jpg

My view the carbon must fall off the front of the injector on removal... you should have seen the old injector nozzles, caked in carbon... but the injector shafts had no issues like blow by, etc...

So above was first vacuumed using my home made tool 1 http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/idea.gif ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/Tool1_zps64a1079e.jpg

6mm AC condensate piping inserted in crevice tool then sealed with sellotape...
When I tried using dowel with cloth I found the wraps of cloth would not allow it free movement in bore so home made tool 2 http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/idea.gif ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/Tool2_zpsf7bf0d14.jpg

This is a electrical wiring rod with cotton bud attached with sellotape, remember to apply tape with clean hands... this tool allowed me clear view of cleaning process of seat due to it's size...

Above tools worked for me, anyone reading use at your own risk

The result...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/Cleanbore_zpsfac54d30.jpg

I used clean engine oil with tool 2...

So next Bank 2...

[sparker]

Half way! Now you know what you are doing the second half should be lot easier and quicker.

Well done Gup, looks like you are doing a great job.

[gupsterg]

Trust me when I rotated the end caps on injectors and was greeted by the camshafts I nearly soiled myself...

Snapdragon did advise to be careful with the nuts on the clamp for injector and he was not wrong, nearly lost one :Blush2:...

Using fingers/tweezers from below to cup the awkward ones helped... on hindsight my next socket set going to be magnetic ;) ...

The slide hammer was so easy to use on removal and I used it to tap the injectors home after guiding them into bore by hand...

And to think one garage I got a quote from said "the injectors could be seized in"...
IMO on this design I would be surprised if they ever seize in...

Thanks for all your confidence boosting PM as well Sparker :fing02: ...

And Crasher & A8 Tech for your posts :beerchug:

[Cwizard]

gupsterg=hero. Congrats on having the guts to start the job in the first place. Hope u finish soon without much trouble. Fingers crossed!

[joedredd]

Well done Gup, and love the new tools perhaps you should patent them. Good luck with bank 2.

[apole]

Hey Gup,

Respect, you certainly are brave and skilled to do this job. Well done for going for it. A new career beckons I think .....

[c4a5er]

on hindsight my next socket set going to be magnetic ;) ...

or use a bit of grease in the socket....;)

[gupsterg]

Cheers again guys for support :You_Rock_ :grouphug:...

Bank 2 nailed today :fest30: ...


or use a bit of grease in the socket....;)

I was tempted but wanted to minimise contaminants to engine oil, as I wanted to run it for a bit then change oil...

Injector 4 was a tricky one... firstly the throttle body was unbolted to allow better access... secondly the oil filler neck was bit of a hindrance to use fingers/tweezers to cup nut on socket so I used the magnetic grab tool today to remove/install nut...

Will upload photos soon :) ...

[apole]

Well done Gup,

Does it run better now or shouldn't I ask ?

[sparker]

So you have changed the injectors over. Have you managed to do the VCDS bit yet? Still that will be the nice bit, telling the car it has new injectors :fing02:

Just looking forward to the day you/we can call Zesty the Lemon, Peachy the Peach!

[gupsterg]

Well done Gup,

Does it run better now or shouldn't I ask ?

Yesterday evening all good on test drive, but I've been there before :Blush2:... wifey taken Zesty for a good run today so will give it a while before I report on my idle issue...


So you have changed the injectors over. Have you managed to do the VCDS bit yet? Still that will be the nice bit, telling the car it has new injectors :fing02:



All coding done...18853


Just looking forward to the day you/we can call Zesty the Lemon, Peachy the Peach!

Me too :) ...

Another thing I experienced with injector change over Link:- 6 New Injectors Fitted - Lower MPG, White Smoke still haunting me. Fuel Smell. - Page 2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?140243-6-New-Injectors-Fitted-Lower-MPG-White-Smoke-still-haunting-me-Fuel-Smell&p=770122#post770122)

[c4a5er]

I love a happy ending...:D





I was tempted but wanted to minimise contaminants to engine oil, as I wanted to run it for a bit then change oil...


I understand your concern but it's been done many times without issue, you only need the tiniest amount to give a little suction that leaves barely any residue..........obviously cleanliness is crucial.

[fieldy]

So Gup, im dying to know, does it feel better? Or is it one of those disappointing (but expensive) fixes?

Well done for tackling yourself....

[gupsterg]

Trust me http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/friends.gif lots of moments of http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/wacko.gif ... body parts twitched when one nut fell of socket on bank 1, that day I used a magnetic screwdriver and tweezers to fish the nut out luckily it had gone between the end cap and injector clamp...

The next day when doing bank 2 look at this predicament...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/2012_12190175_zps84c00801.jpg

The red line show where throttle body was removed to gain better access as my experience from other day had taught me take even slower then I was before...

Firstly end cap would not rotate as much as any of the other locations due to the oil filler neck (yellow line)... the method of finger/tweezers to clasp nut was not going to work either as access from all sides was a mare...

But thank the Audi god for Snapdragon's advice on buying a magnetic grab tool http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/applaus.gif... which came on the morning of bank 2 ;) ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/Magnetictool_zpsd57d1cb4.jpg

With above I was able to rotate nut off final threads and place new one... I don't believe I have fat fingers but trust be that nut was the second heart stopper http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/blink.gif...

As to results I'm :sad6: I must wait before I say anything...

[fieldy]

So my current shopping list is:-

059 130 216 C x 6 Tensioning plate
N 904 465 02 X 12 Hex.Collar Nut
WHT 000 884 X 6 "O" Ring for injector bore

Injectors come with these parts but gonna order spares in case lose whilst fitting...

059 130 519 x 1 "O" Ring / Copper washer
059 130 119 x 1 "O" Ring / Fuel return pipe seal

Evening Gup,

Now youre the right side of new injectors :) just wondered did you find you needed all the bits from your shopping list?

Just ordered mine today and wanted to order the additional bits tomorrow. Tensioner plates seem like a must, did the new injectors have all the right seals in the end?

Cheers mate

[gupsterg]

Hi ya mate :) ...

Final parts list Link:- Post 76 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=769308#post769308) and the visual aid here Link: Post 74 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=769283#post769283) tool links are also in that post, I got from ebay seller Premier Factors...

The magnetic pickup tool was also ebay... are you doing changeover yourself?

ATB
Gup

[Brycie]

I think we're all waiting with baited breath to find out whether the new injectors has got the car running as it should. Looking forward to hearing good news soon.

[gupsterg]

Hi guys... I may as well tell everyone ...

If they do awards on VWAF! then I think I will/would get chump of the year :) ...

I used a Halfords Advan. Torq. wrench, bought everything new, followed/done to the letter ...

But as usual crashed and burned like the Hindenburg http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/3sadwalk.gif (javascript:void(0))... it lasted a day or so without doing hunting, done 150 miles...

Any further updates will now be in lemon thread...

[Brycie]

Absolutely gutted.

[gupsterg]

x2... mate...

[fieldy]

Hi ya mate :) ...

Final parts list Link:- Post 76 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=769308#post769308) and the visual aid here Link: Post 74 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=769283#post769283) tool links are also in that post, I got from ebay seller Premier Factors...

The magnetic pickup tool was also ebay... are you doing changeover yourself?

ATB
Gup

Hi Gup,

Sorry i didnt come back to you, been a busy few days, tucked away 500 miles.

Not going to do the change myself. Your guide has given me some confidence that if i took my time i could probably crack it. However i dont have VCDS, which to be honest makes it all quite expensive. Quite busy at present and as the old girl is approaching a major service ive opted to get it all done in one hit.

Going to get the glow plugs done and order the tensioner plates this week. Then, in hoping she should be tip top (famous last). Oh and then to pluck up the courage the dismantle the interior to see if it harbours any water under the carpet. FYI father in laws A6 came back from dealer after 3 weeks with same diagnosis, floor bung cleared. So its not just your A6.

[JimC64]

Hey Gup,
a fantastic write up thread by you as always my friend.

I'm sorry to hear of your issues and that your research / hard work etc hasn't done the trick so far.

Knowing you though, I'm sure you'll stick with it and report back with success in the near future.

[gupsterg]

FYI father in laws A6 came back from dealer after 3 weeks with same diagnosis, floor bung cleared. So its not just your A6.

Thanks for update about your in laws one, sorry to hear about it but at least got resolved... my view now is getting that as these cars age some issues will become more common...

I think glow plugs is good idea as well I may do mine in summer or at another good time... as my view now that things age on car regardless of mileage...

Here are photos of the fuel return piping... this is the side hidden below coolant tank... if I'd known before doing injector change may have ordered new piping but instead just fitted it back and will keep an eye...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/2012_12190170_zps0cdde79f.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/2012_12190171_zps80b12167.jpg

it looks like surface cracks...

The other think I noted and was highlighted in service guide and I sorta ignored because the area of high pressure piping I saw was clean is corrosion...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/2012_12190179_zps9b78d099.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/2012_12190178_zps66295f1f.jpg

I cleaned mine with diesel and cloth and then had a mates air compressor which I used to blast the piping with...

I found that when you undo the pipes if corrosion has occurred particles can contaminate the common rail/injectors if not cleaned properly...

I even vacuumed/blasted with compressed air the common rail threads/faces as well as the high pressure piping to injectors...


Hey Gup,
a fantastic write up thread by you as always my friend.

I'm sorry to hear of your issues and that your research / hard work etc hasn't done the trick so far.

Knowing you though, I'm sure you'll stick with it and report back with success in the near future.


Thanks for support Jim, the "How to ... " will soon be posted just still snowed with stuff :Blush2:...

My issue has become now very low/not happening after swapping MAF... Link:- BMK 3.0 TDi hunting erratic idle revs ( Have I got the most lemon A6!!! ) - Page 22 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=771035#post771035)

[Crasher]

The thing I really like about people like Gup who post these jobs it it shows how difficult these seemingly simple jobs are so when you have to pay some poor **** of a grease monkey with a bad back to do it, you can see what you are paying for.

[gupsterg]

I do agree... it also shows how you can find other problems like the high pressure pipe corrosion, fuel return pipe...

When I checked price for piping at dealer they said you need to buy the whole return system which IIRC is about £175 :yikes:...

When I PM'd taximeistergolf (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/member.php?14659-taximeistergolf) the OP in Link:- chain rattle (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?97666-Timing-chain-noise-2-7-v6-tdi) thread on his thoughts on A6 he said he got rid as it had become a money pit... wish I'd listened to him :Blush2:...

[fieldy]

There is an "O"ring (item 29) on illustration 130-70... P/N WHT 000 884... this does not seem to be with injectors..

On exploded view in service guide "O" ring shown between copper washer and injector nozzle end...

On exploded view in parts catalogue it is shown further up the shaft of injector...

Where does this "O" ring go? red line or green line or another spot..

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/InjectorOring.jpg

So my current shopping list is:-

059 130 216 C x 6 Tensioning plate
N 904 465 02 X 12 Hex.Collar Nut
WHT 000 884 X 6 "O" Ring for injector bore

Injectors come with these parts but gonna order spares in case lose whilst fitting...

059 130 519 x 1 "O" Ring / Copper washer
059 130 119 x 1 "O" Ring / Fuel return pipe seal

Gup quick question, did your injectors come with any seals in the end? The reason i ask, finally got the car in today its epic list of work including the injectors. Must admit with Xmas i hadnt even unpacked them past checking there were six in the delivery. Garage called AM today to say they need to order seals for the new injectors. Thats fair enough but i thought Bosch would at least supply some. Just debating taking it up with supplier, as also slightly miffed one unit came not wrapped in green plastic bag as well apparently, suggesting it had been fiddled with.

Cheers

Ross

[gupsterg]

Mine only mate came with the copper seal near nozzle and the small O ring for the fuel return pipe... ref image in this post... Link:- A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible? - Page 8 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=769283#post769283)

The rest of the stuff the clamps, the large O ring, the end cap, bolts, nuts I bought for round about £129... Link:- A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible? - Page 8 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=769308#post769308)

[fieldy]

Well...got the car back this evening, £860 lighter!! (injector change, glow plugs, full service with engine flush, coolant change and brake fluid change).

Have to say a full set of injectors has transformed the car, i must have been driving on duff injectors for a long time. Far Smoother, faster and weirdly has eliminated some clunky gear changes i was having prior, in fact (and im sure its not my imagination) the gearbox behaves differently all together. Also noticed there is no longer a smell like a truck exhaust when i open the door at idle. At idle the smell at the rear is no more than a faint hint of fumes now if you crouch right down!

Think a full service has helped a lot too.

So all in all im pleased that particular injector noose around my neck is now done and appears to be put to bed. Be rude not to take the old girl to Switzerland skiing now :)

[gupsterg]

Glad to hear :) ...


Also noticed there is no longer a smell like a truck exhaust when i open the door at idle. At idle the smell at the rear is no more than a faint hint of fumes now if you crouch right down!

Besides smoothness of stuff the exhaust fumes was the biggest difference for me as well ;) ... I really could not stand behind car before@idle... like you now have to crouch down to get a whiff...

[bops6]

Any of you guys that have replaced injectors got the old working ones still for asb engine. I'm looking for some to get upgraded to flow more.

[CrazyBoutCars]

You could try using Liqui Moly's Diesel purge or Super Diesel additive, before you spend thousands on an expensive repair. Deposits on or in injectors cause many other problems due to poor combustion such as clogged intake manifold and EGR problems. It might be a good idea to check your intake as well. I use the Super Diesel Additive regularly and my Jetta has never run better. My mechanic told me to try use two separate applications for very troubled injectors.

[Guest 2]

You could try using Liqui Moly's Diesel purge or Super Diesel additive, before you spend thousands on an expensive repair. Deposits on or in injectors cause many other problems due to poor combustion such as clogged intake manifold and EGR problems. It might be a good idea to check your intake as well. I use the Super Diesel Additive regularly and my Jetta has never run better. My mechanic told me to try use two separate applications for very troubled injectors.

One more chance then byebye to explain your IP.

[Crasher]

You could try using Liqui Moly's Diesel purge or Super Diesel additive

Snake oil!

[Guest 2]

Snake oil!

Don't worry he'll be going once the illusive spam link appears :rolleyes:

[gupsterg]

Hi peeps :) ...

The how to has been done Link:- VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142059-Audi-A6-4F-C6-V6-2-7-3-0-TDi-injector-removal-installation)

I think I've covered all I did :) ... it may help another to do the inj.swap or help another to see what a mechanic/technician has to do...

ATB
Gup

[kaspars345]

Hi Guys,
I see that you are sort of experts now in this area.
Maybe you can take a look at my printscreen of 013 and 014 channels and tell me if I urgently need to change these injectors or I can live some time with that? Sometimes I also see rough idling after standing some time.

How bad are these 4 injectors?

[gupsterg]

I also see rough idling after standing some time.
Nooooo! not rough idling :smashfrea...


How bad are these 4 injectors?

What are your MVB 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77?

Do you get the white smoke?

[kaspars345]

Hi,

I haven't noticed the white smoke, so I suppouse I don't have it yet. What I see is that after some while of idling the rpm's start a bit floating. Not much, let's say in a range of till 40rpm or less, but still.
The MVB 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77 I can post only later this evening, as I am at work and the car is parked at home.
I own this car since a week and I'm a bit afraid to burn the pistons as I have to travel non-stop more than 2000km after a month.
Thanks for your support, I will post later this evening the data.

[gupsterg]

What I see is that after some while of idling the rpm's start a bit floating. Not much, let's say in a range of till 40rpm or less, but still.

This is what happen in my car still :( ... sometimes at just after crank of engine has finished on cold start... other time when it has been driven and warm it will do it after crank of engine has finished... other times you will be driving car and come to say a parking spot and as soon as you go from "D" to "P" on gearbox (mine an Auto) it will start hunting revs... I am sick and tired of it had have tried too many things :( ...

My biblical thread is here (I have one of the last posts) Link:- BMK 3.0 TDi hunting erratic idle revs ( Have I got the most lemon A6!!! ) - Page 24 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=782290#post782290)

In this post you can see how far I've come with issue, here there is a video of when before all work then when most been done... Link:- BMK 3.0 TDi hunting erratic idle revs ( Have I got the most lemon A6!!! ) - Page 23 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=777914#post777914)


The MVB 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77 I can post only later this evening, as I am at work and the car is parked at home.
I own this car since a week and I'm a bit afraid to burn the pistons as I have to travel non-stop more than 2000km after a month.
Thanks for your support, I will post later this evening the data.

Yep post data someone will be able to give you info... as to damage you are talking about I have no idea as just an owner trying to fix his car...

[kaspars345]

Hi,

I see that you have written a respectable load of information, during some break I will read it through. Nice job :)
Yesterday I took some screens with VCDS. Now I do not know if the data is usable or not as the engine was about 40c-50c warm when I took the data (and not operating temperature 90c).
The injectors look like this:


I hope these are the needed measuring block readings. No idea what should I else look at.
The next week I will try some injector cleaner diesel additive, I have to visit my local shop and ask for some suggestions.

Yesterday I did not notice these floating revs, but maybe because the car was not warm enough as i have driven only till shop and back. They occur when the car is idling for a longer period of time.
If the injectors will be ok, I will have to live with that.

[gupsterg]

To me your MVB 72 to 77 look good, but no expert :) ...

Please ref this thread as well... Link:- Injector fields check (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142646-Injector-fields-check)

Maybe I too will have to live with the hunting revs :( ... until I sell the car!
So much for VAG quality :smashfreaseems like hunting revs occur more often then people post about it on the V6...

[Crasher]

So much for VAG quality :smashfrea

It is VAG's responsibility but remember they do not make the injectors, they are made by a Tier 1 supplier who is supposed to be amongst the best in the world BUT I think much of the problem is due to the UK's poor quality diesel, if you put **** in, you get crap out!

[gupsterg]

I've been using the shell v-power/esso supreme eg about 8-10p a litre more than standard diesel since owning car (16mths+)...

Link:- Audi A6 Avant 3.0 TDi Quattro ( C6 4F ) (Audi A6 Quattro) | Fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/driver/gupsterg/a6-quattro)

All my previous/family members diesels are on normal diesel/supermarket...

So which countries diesel is best? seen so many people from different countries say their diesel is poor quality... manufacturers must equate quality/tolerances,etc...

Link:- So which country has the best quality diesel for my VAG? (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142919-So-which-country-has-the-best-quality-diesel-for-my-VAG)

Its had two oil changes in 10K... new filters twice all round...

I've spent more than my fair share on this VAG car maybe it is just a pile of poo :( ...

[skinso]

is the injector problen just with the 2.7 and 3.0 a6? ove had a 2.0 tdi for around 4 months and this injector problem is worrying

[Crasher]

Gup, you have to remember these are a premium executive high end car and bloody expensive to buy new, you are never going to be able to run an old one on a shoe string or properly repair it within what is considered a sensible percentage of its current market value. One of my current band wagons is getting over to people that you cannot fix a car you bought cheap for less than it cost you when it cost £40K+ when new, it just doesn't work.

Skinso, which type of 2 litre TDI, PD or CR?

[gupsterg]

Hi,

I've spent £6k+ (in 16mths) that includes my DIY install of injec. excludes the numerous times I've removed interior for water issues and other stuff...

What is a good budget for fixes on these cars?

Just so no one else does what I did...

I should have just dumped it at chain rattle fix situation way back Link:- post 17 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=728297#post728297)

Thanks

[skinso]

crasher mine is a 2006 2.0 tdi. also is the water in the footwell an issue for mine?

[Crasher]

Gup, what you have done is what a conscientious owner should do, a premium car takes some looking after and you have tried your best and been let down by the people who did the work for you, that's the worst part.

Skinso, tha car is a PD and has a totally different type of injection system BUT some engines codes have had injector issues so I would need your engine code or for you to PM me your reg. We are doing the cam belt on an Avant version today and have quite a few 2 litre 4F's on our books and they are very dependable. A few weeks ago we sold one to a very long standing customer to replace his V6 petrol A4.

[gupsterg]

Gup, what you have done is what a conscientious owner should do, a premium car takes some looking after and you have tried your best and been let down by the people who did the work for you, that's the worst part.

I can not put into words how I feel after you reading you post :bigok: ... so thank you very much for this acknowledgement! :fing02:...

It means a great deal to me :) ...

[Crasher]

:grouphug:

[DieTryin']

I can not put into words how I feel after you reading you post :bigok: ... so thank you very much for this acknowledgement! :fing02:...

It means a great deal to me :) ...


So stop ****ing about G and fix the flipping thing :biglaugh:

[Jõuvanker]

Hi.
I have a Audi A6 2.7TDI 140KW CANC, 04.10.2008

My car have idel speed 693rpm and the pressure in the commonrail system
is 248,5bar at idel speed ( warm engine 90C ).
693rpm at idel I feel the vibration,
engine make the vibration.
If I turn engine off and start again, then the idel is 819rpm, pressure is 248.5 and after 30-50sec. idel fall to 693rpm, pressure 248,5bar and I feel the vibration.If I lift idel in ca 800rpm, then vibration dissappears and engin run softer.

0 error codes.

If I watch the injectors values on blocks 72-77 ( VAG COM ), then I see all values up to 0 ( +6 +28 ). It is normal, or its not normal? It means some obstruction ( dirt ) on injectors?
Maybe the injectors makes the vibration on idel speed?
Car have a good power and goes well, fuel consumption is good. No white smoke.
Injector vales:
693rpm:
plock 013: -0,14 0,05 0,00
plock 014: -0,71 0,66 -0,05
819rpm:
plock 013: 0,00 0,09 0,00
plock 014: 0,66 0,52 0,09
_________________________

072: 10,0 13,0 17,0
073: 6,0 12,0 16,0
074: 21,0 18,0 23,0
075: 26,0 21,0 22,0
076: 8,0 18,0 20,0
077: 8,0 14,0 16,0

Audi center done update for engine software, and now I use fuel additive. Vibration is now small but still exist.
Any idea?

[gupsterg]

Hi, welcome to VWAF!

My view is that your injectors are probably ok but I'm no mechanic :Blush2: ...

The engine vibration and idle speed symptoms you describe are very similar to what I'm having...
The way you say your car drive well, have good power, good fuel consump. and no white smoke is again is like how my car is...

How many miles/km has your car done?
What is the exhaust gas measuring block showing?

Check MVB 03 in module 01 ... here is a list of MVB Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A6 4F (2005- ) . Engine Control Unit J623 (http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_12817.html#1)

Perhaps start a new thread? then you can detail all your related info...

Regards
G

[Jõuvanker]

Hi, welcome to VWAF!

How many miles/km has your car done?
What is the exhaust gas measuring block showing?

Check MVB 03 in module 01 ... here is a list of MVB Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A6 4F (2005- ) . Engine Control Unit J623 (http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_12817.html#1)

Regards
G

Hi.

136 000km original.
MBV channel 03:
1) engien speed: 693rpm
2) Specified eintake air mass: 264,4mg/stroke
3) Actual air mass: 393,6mg/stroke
4) EGR control value: 99,6%
Coolant temp is 72C

MBV cahnnel 010:
1) actual air mass: 387,8mg ( must be at idle 210-280mg ! )

Maybe some air leak in the intake manifold or MAF error?

Estonian Audi center dont know nothing.

[gupsterg]

Please start a new thread... as we will be taking it further from injectors...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpy8gvg2Ifw&feature=youtu.be

I could take the crown for off topic posting within topic orientated areas of forum but I'm trying to become a better poster :o (honest mod team ;) )...

[gianton]

"How does £900 + VAT for brand new unused genuine Bosch REV BD set of 6 sound?"
Great price, I would have jumped at that 2-3 weeks ago when I got mine.
I just changed mine in the A8 ASB engine yesterday. I bought them from mr.smith.von.germany via ebay.de
I took a punt on BE suffix specc'ed for 1800 BAR systems, even though my car spec is 1600 BAR BD (to replace my AB suffix)
My rationale was that the vendor and others (mostly on german and russian forums) found they worked.
Also, the fuel rail pressure rarely reaches 1600 bar anyway, so most of the time they operate at ~500 bar anyway.

They were quire easy to fit and took about 4 hours to do.
You do need the clamps, as they are very heavy duty springs so may relax with age.
I would also replace the 6 covers in the head cover, as these have seals which may not seat correctly after being disturbed or slid over the ridges on the injector.
You can undo all of the high pressure metal pipes with an open ended 14mm and 17mm spanner.
The braided return lines have quick-fit connections which can be fiddly at first.
You have to 'lean' on the plastic fingers that stick out with one finger and pull up the centre via the flange at the top. It slides about 10mm up and then the connector pops off. It helps to wet them with meths or IPA first, but maybe WD40 would do.

The BE injectors work superbly, my smoke at idle has gone, less smoke at WOT smootehr running. Peformance is the same or slightly better.
Less cranking to start too.

Good luck.



I am having the same issue with white smoke from the excaust pipes and jerky idle run.

Could you please advise if you had any problems using the 059130277BE injectors instead of the 059130277BD ones? My car is A6 Allroad 4F 3.0 TDI with the ASB engine and have found this set from eBay.de: AUDI EINSPRITZDÃœSE 3.0 TDI 2.7 TDI NEU ORIGINAL 059130277BE | eBay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/AUDI-EINSPRITZDUSE-3-0-TDI-2-7-TDI-NEU-ORIGINAL-059130277BE-/131048361231?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1e83174d0f)

Thanks for your input.

[gianton]

I finally ordered the above BE injectors. Both my local idy and AD confirmed that as long as they are the exact size and can fit they'll work after programming them.
Also the seller confirmed they'll work, he sold a lot of these for the ASB and BMK engines.
I'll update here once installed hopefully in ten days.

[gianton]

I had them installed by my idy yesterday and they're working fine. The smoke has gone idle run is smooth again and I noticed better response when accelerating.

[gianton]

BTW I also had the DPF removed both hardware and ECU and EGR delete in ECU.

[toff]

I had them installed by my idy yesterday and they're working fine. The smoke has gone idle run is smooth again and I noticed better response when accelerating.

Hi... sorry to dig-up an old thread... just wondering if the "BE" injectors you fitted continued to work perfectly over time?

Thanks in advance
Al.

[gianton]

Hi... sorry to dig-up an old thread... just wondering if the "BE" injectors you fitted continued to work perfectly over time?

Thanks in advance
Al.

Hi yes they're working great no issues whatsoever after 60k Kms.

[dean warren]

I have a set of BE for sale, all with a test report. Which cost £120 (£20 each)


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[toff]

Thanks for your reply gianton - glad to hear!

Dean - I am interested; do you have a price in mind? Where is the test certificate from please, Diesel Bob by any chance?

Al

[dean warren]

Pm


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[Carlparry22]

Hi all the info in here is great. I have an a4 b7 3.0 tdi and I am planning on changing injectors on here because of garages telling me they are all broken. Oil level rising. White smoke etc etc.
Following the write up I have some questions.
I'd there a particular way I have to put the new injectors in? I mean is the rotation of the injector I'mportant?
Secondly I will be programming the new ones in and I have purchased VCDS but I am a complete newbie.
How do I know which is cylinder 1 to 6 by looking at the engine and how does vcds know ?
Anyone got a detailed description of how to code these injectors please?
Thanks again
Carl

[dean warren]

Plenty of answers on google, but for me i drew a simple picture of the cylinders and wrote by 1 what i took out, and what i put in. Then if you get confused you just open up the cylinders in vcds till you find the number of the injector you took out.


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[gupsterg]

Hi all the info in here is great. I have an a4 b7 3.0 tdi and I am planning on changing injectors on here because of garages telling me they are all broken. Oil level rising. White smoke etc etc.
Following the write up I have some questions.
I'd there a particular way I have to put the new injectors in? I mean is the rotation of the injector I'mportant?
Secondly I will be programming the new ones in and I have purchased VCDS but I am a complete newbie.
How do I know which is cylinder 1 to 6 by looking at the engine and how does vcds know ?
Anyone got a detailed description of how to code these injectors please?
Thanks again
Carl

The injector has a slot for the clamp which holds it to block, it can only go in 2 ways and you will know if the orientation is wrong as the fuel pipes won't go on as needed.

When facing the engine bay from the front, injector/glow plug/cylinder numbering is 1 to 3 from front to back of engine on left side and 4 to 6 on right side. Ref this guide (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/142059-Audi-A6-4F-C6-V6-2-7-3-0-TDi-injector-removal-installation) and near the end you will see text about the adaption channel numbering and coding :) .

Good luck with your injector change :) , read the guide and if you have any questions post and it will give me an opportunity to add anything to it that anyone may want :) .

[Carlparry22]

The injector has a slot for the clamp which holds it to block, it can only go in 2 ways and you will know if the orientation is wrong as the fuel pipes won't go on as needed.

When facing the engine bay from the front, injector/glow plug/cylinder numbering is 1 to 3 from front to back of engine on left side and 4 to 6 on right side. Ref this guide (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/142059-Audi-A6-4F-C6-V6-2-7-3-0-TDi-injector-removal-installation) and near the end you will see text about the adaption channel numbering and coding :) .

Good luck with your injector change :) , read the guide and if you have any questions post and it will give me an opportunity to add anything to it that anyone may want :) .

Thank you for the information much appreciated.
I knew it could go 2 ways but was unsure i thought it was something more technical than that.
I will post a follow up and let ppl know how it went
Thanks again
Carl

[Carlparry22]

Hi all im trying to code my new injector codes on VCDS but it wont let me. the save icon is not lit up?
Do i need security access on VCDS?
My car is an 2005 a4 b7 avant 3.0 tdi v6

Thank you

[MarkTM]

Carl

Is it VCDS lite or the full version
If the full is it a kosher one (i.e. is the version 16.8.4)?

[Carlparry22]

Hi its vcds release 16.8.3

[gupsterg]

Enter the value as required in adaptation channel, then hit "Test", then "Save". If you do not press "Test" after entering new data value for adaptation channel "Save" will be unavailable IIRC.

VCDS Wiki (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/3.0l_V6_TDI_(BKS/BMK/BUN)) on procedure.

[Carlparry22]

Hi Gupsterg, i enter the new value and press test it comes up with the old injector value comes up not the new one?

[gupsterg]

As it was a long time ago I did this I can't recall if you see the updated code straight away. So I would do as the wiki says as I used that. So enter code > click test > click save and then:-


Switch Ignition OFF, wait 10 seconds and switch Ignition ON again. The values should be saved now, please verify them by double checking the adaptation values.

[Crasher]

Have you done the adaptation or basic settings login if required?

[Carlparry22]

Hi guys thanks for all the help. Turned out I was putting wrong code in for injector calibration. On one of the injector it started with a "B" but I had it wrote down on paper it was an "8" what a stupid knob I am. Feel stupid. Calibrated all 6 new injectors. Primed the fuel tried to start up. Flat battery. Lol
Few mins on jump leads and hey presto the sound of the v6 put a smile on my face. Warmed it up took it for a drive for an hour checked everything. All good. What a difference. I'd like to say a big thank you to posts on this forum and all your support. Thanks guys you've been a great help.

[gupsterg]

Sweet :D .